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Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 556 of 1639 (777492)
02-02-2016 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 555 by RAZD
02-02-2016 2:24 PM


Re: Iowa - The Numbers
Correction: a self-described social democrat
A pointless correction, both since Pressie was not wrong,
quote:
I am a socialist and everyone knows that - Bernie Sanders
and since 'social democrat' is a subset of socialist, as most people use the words.
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 557 of 1639 (777534)
02-03-2016 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by RAZD
02-02-2016 2:24 PM


Re: Iowa - The Numbers
Nope. His owns words:
I am a socialist and everyone knows that.
Sanders said that responding to an ad that tried to link him to the regime of Fidel Castro. His response was:
They also understand that my kind of democratic socialism has nothing to do with authoritarian communism.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 558 of 1639 (777548)
02-03-2016 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 557 by Pressie
02-03-2016 7:09 AM


They are dropping like flies
So far, the following have dropped out after the Iowa caucus on the Republican side:
Rand Paul
Mike Huckabee
Rick Santorum
That still leaves:
Donald Trump
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
Ben Carson
Jeb Bush
Carly Fiorina
John Kasich
Chris Christie
Interestingly, Rand Paul got more votes than Bush yet he still dropped out. I wonder how long before the 'establishment' Republicans start shifting their money towards Rubio, as he looks to be the best choice out of the remaining pack that has a chance and isn't completely bonkers.
Chris Christie was also second to last. I am guessing he is on thin ice as well. Which isn't a good thing considering how heavy he is.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(1)
Message 559 of 1639 (777549)
02-03-2016 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 557 by Pressie
02-03-2016 7:09 AM


Re: Iowa - The Numbers
To be honest.. he says 'democratic socialist'
PolitiFact | Bernie Sanders socialist or democratic socialist?

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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 560 of 1639 (777552)
02-03-2016 3:40 PM


Jeb?

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


(2)
Message 561 of 1639 (777553)
02-03-2016 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Hyroglyphx
01-29-2016 6:45 AM


Re: My prediction. Sanders gets 54-56% in Iowa.
She just doesn't have that non-academic X-factor.
I agree, and when she tries it seems very forced and unnatural for her
Just as you wouldn't want to be operated on by a surgeon with half a brain, you shouldn't want to be governed by someone whose only merit is having the X-factor.
Why not go for someone who is, I don't know, competent for the job? It makes the choice a lot easier, because it rules out almost all of the current contenders.
But that's seemingly not how it works in your country. Anyway, whatever happens, I really, really, REALLY implore you Americans to muster the good sense NOT to give the job to the clown Donald Trump. The world is already in a sorry state, we really don't need a foul mouthed, bigoted, racist, pompous, egomaniacal idiot in a position to make matters worse. In fact, compared to Trump, even having someone like George W. Bush again would be a blessing.
So, please America, I beg of you, choose anyone but Trump.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 562 of 1639 (777556)
02-03-2016 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 559 by ramoss
02-03-2016 3:27 PM


Re: Iowa - The Numbers
To be honest.. he says 'democratic socialist'
Which is interesting, because as the terms are traditionally used in western European politics 'democratic socialist' does not sound like a milder and less intimidating form of socialism. Socialist political parties and factions (excluding those advocating armed revolution) were generally divided into two categories - social democrats, who wanted to use government intervention to ameliorate the ills of capitalism; and democratic socialists, who wanted to use the ballot box to abolish capitalism peacefully. I'm not sure that's what he really means.

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ooh-child
Member (Idle past 343 days)
Posts: 242
Joined: 04-10-2009


Message 563 of 1639 (777564)
02-03-2016 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by Diomedes
02-03-2016 3:18 PM


Re: They are dropping like flies
Interestingly, Rand Paul got more votes than Bush yet he still dropped out.
He's got to defend his senate seat. It'd be great to put a democrat in that position, but I think he has a challenger in the primary.
Bush doesn't have anything better to do, apparently.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 564 of 1639 (777567)
02-03-2016 6:50 PM


Trump Demands Do-Over
Trump wants the Iowa caucuses to be done again because Cruz cheated and because Trump is an impotent petulant cry-baby loser.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 565 of 1639 (777577)
02-03-2016 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by caffeine
02-03-2016 4:05 PM


Re: Iowa - The Numbers
Which is interesting, because as the terms are traditionally used in western European politics 'democratic socialist' does not sound like a milder and less intimidating form of socialism. Socialist political parties and factions (excluding those advocating armed revolution) were generally divided into two categories - social democrats, who wanted to use government intervention to ameliorate the ills of capitalism; and democratic socialists, who wanted to use the ballot box to abolish capitalism peacefully. I'm not sure that's what he really means.
Let's see what Mr Sanders has to say:
Bernie Sanders Channels FDR To Explain What 'Democratic Socialism' Means To Him | HuffPost Latest News
quote:
Bernie Sanders Channels FDR To Explain What 'Democratic Socialism' Means To Him
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders sought to contextualize his self-described democratic socialism on Thursday by pointing out that many of the programs Americans use today -- such as unemployment insurance, Social Security and Medicare -- were considered radical when they were introduced decades ago.
Sanders’ widely anticipated speech explaining what democratic socialism means to him was hosted at Georgetown University’s new Institute of Politics and Public Service at the McCourt School of Public Policy. The independent senator from Vermont was greeted with rapturous applause by students who had waited in line in the pouring rain to hear his remarks.
Sanders’ speech invoked Franklin Delano Roosevelt's 1944 State of the Union address, in which the president described a second Bill of Rights" to provide more economic security for the American people. Sanders quoted Roosevelt, who said that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. Necessitous men are not free men.
In other words, real freedom must include economic security, Sanders said.
Sanders noted that policies FDR advocated for, such as Social Security, a federal minimum wage, the 40-hour workweek, the eradication of child labor, collective bargaining, banking regulations and other measures, were derided as socialist at the time.
And he has compared his policies to those in some nordic nations, like Denmark.
Social democracy - Wikipedia
quote:
Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, measures for income redistribution, and a commitment to representative democracy.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater egalitarian, democratic and solidaristic outcomes; and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Western and Northern Europeparticularly the Nordic model in the Nordic countriesduring the latter half of the 20th century.[4][5][6]
Sounds a lot like his positions that he has been advocating for years.
He also says that getting elected President will not be enough (for any democrat) to ensure that these policies will be enacted, but that it will take a political revolution -- a ground swell of people voting for representatives and senators that support them.
Of course the ignorant Tea Potty type Americans will call him a communist and a fascist as they have accused Obama, and will accuse Hillary ... (and anyone that is liberal).
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 566 of 1639 (777578)
02-03-2016 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 563 by ooh-child
02-03-2016 5:44 PM


Re: They are dropping like flies
He's got to defend his senate seat. It'd be great to put a democrat in that position, but I think he has a challenger in the primary.
No, the General:
Lexington mayor Jim Gray announces he's running against Rand Paul for Senate | CNN Politics
quote:
The mayor of Lexington, Kentucky, announced Tuesday he will challenge Rand Paul for the Senate, giving Democrats their best shot yet at defeating the Republican incumbent.
Interestingly, some of his supporters may switch to Bernie (who appeals to many moderate republicans and a strong majority of independents -- which includes a lot of libertarians).
Now that would be news
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 567 of 1639 (777579)
02-03-2016 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by Dr Adequate
02-03-2016 6:50 PM


Re: Trump Demands Do-Over
There is a case that Ted did some unsavory things that did amount to cheating. First his staff sent out flyers to delegates essentially telling them that they would be committing a criminal offense if they did not show up.
Secondly, his staff put out the word that Ben Carson was dropping out of the race, when in fact Carson was doing no such thing. The staff urged those Carson supporters to thrown their support to Cruz. Carson complained to the Republican committee but they said that they were not going to get involved.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 568 of 1639 (777583)
02-04-2016 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 558 by Diomedes
02-03-2016 3:18 PM


Re: They are dropping like flies
Interestingly, Rand Paul got more votes than Bush yet he still dropped out.
I guess he still thinks the Bush dynasty is still relevant. It isn't.
I wonder how long before the 'establishment' Republicans start shifting their money towards Rubio, as he looks to be the best choice out of the remaining pack that has a chance and isn't completely bonkers.
Rand Paul and Marco Rubio seemed like the only one's that, as you said, aren't completely bonkers (not that I'm a fan of either). But as good of a debater and clear talent he has for politics, I can't get behind a lot of his policies.
I would like to see Rubio/Sanders, because at least these are the lesser of evils for me. Really don't know who I'd vote for at this point, because I identify as socially liberal (Sanders), but fiscally conservative (Rubio).
I'm truly the swing vote independent at this point.
Of course, there is the possibility that a decent libertarian might still throw their hat in to the ring, in which case, I will "throw my vote away" in their direction.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 569 of 1639 (777594)
02-04-2016 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by Parasomnium
02-03-2016 3:43 PM


Re: My prediction. Sanders gets 54-56% in Iowa.
Parasomnium writes:
But that's seemingly not how it works in your country
Yip. In my country (and in the rest of the continent) the strong man tends to win. Regardless of how corrupt he is. The strong man can do whatever he wants to and still be elected.
It seems like in America the X-factor man is likely to win. No matter how stupid he is.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 570 of 1639 (777616)
02-04-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 566 by RAZD
02-03-2016 10:10 PM


Re: They are dropping like flies
Typical politician - Rand Paul wants it both ways. He got the Republicans in Kentucky to change from primary vote to caucus so Paul could run for both President and Senate at the same time.
Not only is he hunting for his next job while collecting his current paycheck (and skipping a lot of work), but he wants to keep his safe Senate seat while trying for a promotion.
He dropped the Presidential race to fight both the caucus challengers and the election Democrat.

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