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Author Topic:   The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 46 of 254 (776734)
01-19-2016 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by foreveryoung
01-18-2016 9:30 PM


Re: insurrection
Why is peaceful better? There is nothing pleasing about the thought of decades in jail. Living in a physical body without living in any real sense is much worse than violence. If I knew they were capturing me to haul me off to a life of prison, I would put a bullet in my brain.
You are free to make that choice.
The point is to not make them martyrs for the militia idiological folks.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


(4)
Message 47 of 254 (776751)
01-19-2016 2:11 PM


How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
In recent days, The Bodacious Bundy Bros. traveled out of state to recruit more ranchers to stop paying grazing leases.
They've paved a road through ancestral Paiute lands.
They've ransacked federal personnel records.
The founder of the Oath Keepers has warned the government not to "Waco" the occupiers unless it wants a "bloody brutal civil war."
What to do, what to do?
After surfing some right-wing sites, I suggest a few flyovers that use the mind control chemtrail technology the feds keep under wraps.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by RAZD, posted 01-19-2016 5:05 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(4)
Message 48 of 254 (776756)
01-19-2016 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Omnivorous
01-19-2016 2:11 PM


Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
After surfing some right-wing sites, I suggest a few flyovers that use the mind control chemtrail technology the feds keep under wraps.
And drones, lots of drones, especially those with the high pitched whine that sounds like a bee's nest, and especially at night. Use them to document every action. Rig them to drop teargas canisters if shot at. Play loud music 24/7. Put nail boards across the roads in and out.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Omnivorous, posted 01-19-2016 2:11 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Omnivorous, posted 01-19-2016 7:27 PM RAZD has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 49 of 254 (776764)
01-19-2016 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by RAZD
01-19-2016 5:05 PM


Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
RAZD writes:
Play loud music 24/7.
I volunteer to make the mix tape.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by RAZD, posted 01-19-2016 5:05 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2016 3:20 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 659 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 50 of 254 (776778)
01-20-2016 3:51 AM


Just release the brothers from prison. Isn't that what this thing is all about?

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by vimesey, posted 01-20-2016 5:48 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 52 by DrJones*, posted 01-20-2016 10:38 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 53 by 14174dm, posted 01-20-2016 12:47 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 54 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 01-20-2016 2:29 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 150 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(6)
Message 51 of 254 (776780)
01-20-2016 5:48 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by foreveryoung
01-20-2016 3:51 AM


The idea that you could get the government of a democratic country to override a decision of its judicial system, by staging an armed insurrection (however limited), is a tad dangerous, don't you think ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by foreveryoung, posted 01-20-2016 3:51 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


(5)
Message 52 of 254 (776800)
01-20-2016 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by foreveryoung
01-20-2016 3:51 AM


Just release the brothers from prison.
Why? they did the crime, they should do the time (and it's a father and son). Giving in to terrorists is never a good idea.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by foreveryoung, posted 01-20-2016 3:51 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1186 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(3)
Message 53 of 254 (776805)
01-20-2016 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by foreveryoung
01-20-2016 3:51 AM


It's not about the brothers. This whole thing is about selfish people who want to make as much money as they can using communal property. The brothers were a thin excuse to act like big shots.
Funny how people ranting about the Constitution (IMHO the rule of LAW) ignore the legal process because it doesn't give them the answer they want. Don't they have a member of Congress to represent them? At least one in the House of Representatives and two in the Senate. Don't they have lobbying groups to represent them? Are they blocked from the Federal courts?
So what do they do? They show up with guns and threaten violence.
To me a major foundation of our nation is the rule of law not guns.
Do they want to go down the road of a huge chunk of the Third World? Do they want a nation run by whoever has the most guns?
Bundy keeps making statements about listening to the locals but they're still there after locals loudly told them, to their faces, to go away. The goofs keep inviting more armed strangers to this area. How would you react if armed strangers took over the house next door and publicly invited more random strangers (unknown even to the first group) to move in?
I love the fact that the one guy drives into town for supplies in a government truck. Using tax payer gas and putting miles on a tax payer owned vehicle to save his own money. THAT'S what is important to these guys - THEIR money and THEIR fame
They tear down a length of fence between the refuge and the neighboring ranch, Did they ask to rancher what he wanted? NO. Like a bunch of stupid teenagers, they tear apart something just to tear it apart. The rancher had to reinstall the fence himself.
Edited by 14174dm, : No reason given.
Edited by 14174dm, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by foreveryoung, posted 01-20-2016 3:51 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 54 of 254 (776811)
01-20-2016 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by foreveryoung
01-20-2016 3:51 AM


The father and son don't want help
ForeverYoung writes:
Just release the brothers from prison. Isn't that what this thing is all about?
The father and son (Dwight and Steven Hammond) have stated flatly that these individuals do not represent them, nor did they refuse to reenter prison and finish their sentences.
According to the Hammonds, "
W. Alan Schroeder writes:
Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney W. Alan Schroeder wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward.
Source
Currently, the Hammonds' goal is to quietly serve their sentences while attempting to get a presidential pardon since they had served time which was found to be below the mandatory minimum sentence for arson. According to another article:
OPB staff writes:
Kendra M. Matthews, a lawyer for the Hammonds, said Monday that the father and son will ask President Barack Obama to pardon them. They were convicted of arson for setting fires on federal land in 2001 and 2006 and served some prison time.
Source

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by foreveryoung, posted 01-20-2016 3:51 AM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 55 of 254 (776812)
01-20-2016 2:59 PM


The bubbas claim to have deep pockets supporting them. Hopefully, they are keeping accurate accounts for tax purposes. The real danger from a public standpoint would be legislative changes by a Republican-controlled Congress and Whitehouse, putting public land in private hands. Oregon standoff leader warns feds: Back off
I find myself wondering why the Bubbas were not arrested at this public meeting in the high school gym? I assume they were not armed in the meeting, but then again, these are extremist gun nuts. Oregon standoff: Anger, frustration boil over at community meeting
Some history of some of the big ranches in the region. Timber Oligarchs Transform Into Beef Barons in Harney County and the Oregon High Desert
Why the Bubbas shouldn't be considered terrorist, or maybe they should. It’s definitely not terrorists at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, don’t worry!
A quote from the Malheur NWR Facebook page
quote:
An open letter to our friends, our supporters, and many curious about what's going on here.
From: The Staff of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
To: Our Friends, Partners, and the American Public
Dear Friends,
Many have asked us to comment on the ongoing situation at Malheur NWR. We have refrained because we care deeply for the community, and want to ensure our words do not inflame an already heated situation. However, we believe it is important that our views and position are known.
We believe many in the media (as well as those sympathetic to the illegal occupiers) were surprised to hear that the communitywhile frustrated with the Hammond situationdid not leap to the support of the militants. We are not surprised.
For over 100 years, our Refuge employees have been members of this community. We study, watch our kids play basketball, worship, commune, and interact with our fellow Harney County citizensnot as a ‘we vs. they’but as an ‘us.’
In a community with nearly 40% of working adults engaged in some form of government, we are all touched or involved in the public process. In Harney County, that means we talk. We have cups of coffee. We have arguments. Together we knit our brows, and together we knit scarves. We understand what those in Washington D.C. and those currently occupying the Refuge don’t understand---that Harney County isn’t afraid of tough talk.
We can have effective disagreements and either find resolution, find compromise, or simply agree to disagree. But we do it with respect for the rule of law, and know that our areas of agreement and cooperation are infinitely more powerful than the differences we may face. Mostly, we face those differences together with open dialogue and open gatesnot intimidation and threats. We have access to each other, because we are not afraid to confront difficult situations or have difficult conversations.
It pains each of us that we are missing our obligations to youas church leaders, as 4-H advisers, as friends, and as school volunteers. We hope to be back soon and pick up where we left off.
From the bottom of our hearts, we thank you for your support. We know (as you do too) that it is not our Refuge that has been occupied; this is Harney County’s and America’s Refuge.
We are excited to be part of the eventual healing process for our community. We believe that this difficult situation will lead to even stronger bonds between the Refuge and the community that has supported us. We feel for you, because we are you.
We will get through thisbecause:
We. Are. Harney. County.
  —Malheur NWR Facebook page
A lot is being written about the standoff but not much in so-called mainstream media.
Rallies around the state dreww pretty large crowds yesterday despite crappy weather.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 56 of 254 (776814)
01-20-2016 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Omnivorous
01-19-2016 7:27 PM


Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
I volunteer to make the mix tape.
And I suggest children's songs with lots of repetitions as the most appropriate ...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Omnivorous, posted 01-19-2016 7:27 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Omnivorous, posted 01-20-2016 4:22 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 57 of 254 (776816)
01-20-2016 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
01-20-2016 2:29 PM


Re: The father and son don't want help
Tempe 12ft Chicken writes:
Currently, the Hammonds' goal is to quietly serve their sentences while attempting to get a presidential pardon since they had served time which was found to be below the mandatory minimum sentence for arson.
I expect the Bundys et al. have made that politically impossible.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 01-20-2016 2:29 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 58 of 254 (776817)
01-20-2016 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by RAZD
01-20-2016 3:20 PM


Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
RAZD writes:
And I suggest children's songs with lots of repetitions as the most appropriate ...
I'm afraid they'd like that too much.
In 1989, U.S. forces used deafening music to persuade Noriega to surrender from sanctuary in the Apostolic Nunciature.
Wiki
quote:
Reportedly the song "I Fought The Law" by The Clash was played repeatedly along with "Welcome to the Jungle" by Guns N' Roses; another song in the line-up was "Too Old To Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young to Die" by Jethro Tull.
Guns N' Roses suck, but The Clash and Tull were too good for Noriega. Still, it seemed to work, though the Holy See was not amused.
I was thinking more along the lines of what the occupiers would find most distasteful: some serious hip-hop, perhaps, featuring Who Let The Dogs Out (Baha Men); definitely all of Straight Outta Compton (N.W.A). For racial balance, maybe mix in some Morrissey, who could whine anyone into submission; a few hours of ear-splitting, outta-tune-flat Cher could work, too. Hell, throw in some Gogol Bordello and The Klezmatics.
Black, gay, Native American, Gypsy and Jewish: these guys hate difference. They'll crack overnight.
While writing this, your idea grew on me. Hours of Big Bird and Barney would drive anyone into the slough of despair.
Really, I'd appreciate any federal effort, any at all.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by RAZD, posted 01-20-2016 3:20 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 01-20-2016 4:59 PM Omnivorous has replied
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jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


(6)
Message 59 of 254 (776818)
01-20-2016 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Omnivorous
01-20-2016 4:22 PM


Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
One word; "Chipmunks"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Omnivorous, posted 01-20-2016 4:22 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Omnivorous, posted 01-20-2016 5:16 PM jar has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 60 of 254 (776819)
01-20-2016 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by jar
01-20-2016 4:59 PM


Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
We wanna drive 'em out, not push all of Oregon into open rebellion.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 01-20-2016 4:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 01-20-2016 9:04 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
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