|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Are religions manmade and natural or supernaturally based? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi ringo,
But natural powers have to have something to exist in like the universe. The universe has not always existed. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Pressie,
Pressie writes: Why would a natural power have to begin to exist? Do you know of any natural power that exists outside of the universe? If not then any natural power that now exists had to have a beginning to exist according to the BBT. There are a couple of hypothesis that has been proposed to get around the universe having a beginning to exist. But no theory. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Kbertsche,
kbertsche writes: First, I agree with you that dark matter is "unknown, unobserved", but this does NOT mean that it is "non existent". Even though we cannot observe it, we can observe its gravitational effects, as Admin noted (and this should remind you of a passage in John 3). You can observe what is called gravitational effects on something. I haven't found anyone yet that can tell me what gravity is. They can give me examples of the effects of what is called gravity. Dark matter is what is supposed to be necessary to make the adjustment for the lack of mass to make gravity work in the universe. Like keep the galaxies clumped together.
kbertsche writes: But I would caution you against trying to equate either dark matter or dark energy with God Himself. I do not equate God with anything, as there is nothing equal to God. I say God supplied the energy that is necessary to hold the universe together. If He were to remove the energy that holds it together every quark would fly apart at the speed of light. That would be some awesome fireworks display.
kbertsche writes: I would suggest that the same is true of dark matter and dark energy. I think we will find increasing evidence for these "substances". And as a Christian, I believe these "substances" can be viewed as our human description of how God causes the universe to function and to expand. Whenever you are anyone else finds out what makes gravity work you will find the laws that was put in place when the universe began to exist by the Supernatural power I mentioned in my first post which I call God. FYI The universe is expanding because that Supernatural power I call God streached it out. Isaiah 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12 These verses were recorded over 2,000 years before mankind got smart enough to figure out that the universe was expanding. The one in Isaiah is also in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Yea I know I have been told the Bible is not a science book, therefore does not contain scientific information. I wonder how the writers of those 2 books knew the universe (heavens) were being stretched out. They were stating scientific facts. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
|
ICANT writes: Do you know of any supernatural powers that exist outside of the universe?
Do you know of any natural power that exists outside of the universe?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
The universe has not always existed. At what point in time did the universe not exist? And how do you know?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
ICANT writes:
The universe as we know it may not have existed at one time. As far as we know, natural powers have to have something "to exist in". But natural powers have to have something to exist in like the universe. The universe has not always existed. The sensible approach is to start from what we know and work from there. After all, that is how we got the knowledge that we have now. It makes no sense to say that there "must" have been some voodoo "super" power. They said the same thing about fire and that turned out to be wrong. Don't make the same mistake about everything we don't know yet.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
|
Are religions manmade and natural or supernaturally based?
We have two camps: one thinks all religions are man-made and natural; the other thinks 99.x% of religions are man-made and natural, the x being theirs, which is supernaturally based. You could say we have broad agreement. The default position is that religions are man-made and natural, and we need something compelling to make us think otherwise. I've seen lots of scriptural pleading--the very essence of circular logic--but I haven't seen anything compelling in this thread. Did I miss it?"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads." Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.-Terence |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
responded to wrong person
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
I haven't found anyone yet that can tell me what gravity is. They can give me examples of the effects of what is called gravity. To whom did you pose your question? The question does have an answer. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kbertsche Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: |
ICANT writes:
"Gravity" can have a couple of different meanings. As Pressie said back in message #251, "Scientific laws are descriptive. Not prescriptive." We have a scientific "law of gravity" which describes a real-world phenomenon which we also call "gravity". "Gravity" can refer either to the descriptive law or to the real-world phenomenon which the law seeks to describe.
I haven't found anyone yet that can tell me what gravity is. They can give me examples of the effects of what is called gravity.
We can describe this phenomenon of gravity quite well. We have good, well-tested scientific laws which describe gravity mathematically as a force. We can predict the effects of gravity well enough to send space probes to distant planets and moons. We hypothesize that the gravitational force is mediated by a yet-to-be-discovered particle, the graviton. But what is this phenomenon of gravity, on a fundamental, ontological level? Why does gravity work? Why does it exist? We can't really answer these questions."Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Pressie,
Pressie writes: Do you know of any supernatural powers that exist outside of the universe? Yes, my best friend. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Cat,
Cat writes: At what point in time did the universe not exist? And how do you know? Not long ago you told me that time was a part of the universe. You have told me that time is a dimension in the universe. That means time could not exist until the universe began to exist. Conclusion: Time being a part of the universe and inside of the universe the universe does not exist in time. Time exists inside of the universe. Have you changed your mind about time being a part of the universe? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes: To whom did you pose your question? The question does have an answer. Quacks on the internet. As well as Google searches. I notice you didn't take time to explain it. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
ICANT writes: No, you don't. You believe it. Yes, my best friend. (By the way, I object to you calling me your best friend. My best friend is my wife. We've been married for 30 years. You sound desperate. Don't you have any real friends? My real friends are around me and I can talk to them every day and invite them for braais every now and then. You and me don't know each other from a bar of soap. You sound so much like one of those second-hand car salesmen with the greasy hair we see in ads on tv. They tend to call people they've never personally met their best friends). Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
|
I may be wrong, but I think ICANT may be referring to his god when he says his best friend ?
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024