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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 421 of 860 (771100)
10-20-2015 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Faith
10-20-2015 2:25 AM


Re: Free Faith...
I sincerely apologize for that post.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Faith, posted 10-20-2015 2:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Faith, posted 10-20-2015 3:21 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 422 of 860 (771102)
10-20-2015 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by dwise1
10-20-2015 3:06 AM


Re: Free Faith...
Wow, what's with the fury? I've reported this many times here. Your view of the Christian mindset doesn't fit mine. What's the problem? Remember, you wrote that in the context of talking about ME after all.
The year I became a Christian was somewhere around 1988 and the reason I say "around" is that I had read my way to belief and don't know at what exact point I was a genuine believer. I started reading in the Fall of 1984, with books mostly about Hinduism and Buddhism and the occult and Gnosticism and cults like Rosicrucianism. It took a few years to get to Bible Protestantism. My first experience of church as an adult was in late 1987 but I didn't join one until a couple years later. yes I'd been to church as a child but somehow managed not to learn much, lost it all as a teenager, never heard a word about creationism in those early years.
Then it would have been some time in the early 90s when I started reading books on creationism. Morris, Gish, all those guys.
What would I be lying about anyway?
ABE: You were assuming I had that restricted mindset you impute to Christian fundamentalists. But I was a reasonably well educated adult who did a lot of reading and was certainly used to encountering a variety of points of view. People raised in church and not exposed to any of that until adulthood probably are vulnerable to culture shock and losing their faith as you say. Even I lost mine, such as it was, as a teenager, and for similar reasons: encountering people who scorned what I had grown up with, what little there was of it. But having found out what it is really all about at an age when I could finally appreciate it and see it against the background of everything I'd learned before, has given me a very solid foundation.
At all costs, Faith must maintain her own theological focus. To "begin seeing some things a little from other people's point of view" would only weaken her position. Would only weaken it. She cannot allow that to happen, at any cost.
It's more a need to avoid falling into debate traps in an environment like EvC than it is any sort of worry about losing my theological focus. Trying to keep my arguments simple and clear is enough of a challenge here.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by dwise1, posted 10-20-2015 3:06 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by dwise1, posted 10-20-2015 10:40 AM Faith has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 423 of 860 (771111)
10-20-2015 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 420 by dwise1
10-20-2015 2:54 AM


Re: Free Faith...
dwise1 writes:
With all due respect, just what exactly the fuck are you talking about?
Your Message 417 described, in part, how a fundamentalist upbringing can alienate children from the religion. Faith wanted you to know that she experienced a conversion as an adult, not an indoctrination as a child.
She also says she "was a pretty standard liberal atheist humanities-educated person," and in the past she's also said she accepted evolution, though she exhibits no evidence today of ever knowing much about it. She probably means she accepted the word of scientists that evolution was true, the way most people do for most things about science.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by dwise1, posted 10-20-2015 2:54 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 424 of 860 (771114)
10-20-2015 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Faith
10-20-2015 2:25 AM


Re: Free Faith...
I apologize. I do not remember the last two posts.
However, I believe my original point is still valid regardless of how late in your life you had converted. If anything, conversion as an adult makes for one who is even more strongly entrenched in their separate mentality. An adult who had converted would always know in the back of their mind what ideas or information they must guard against, whereas a child raised on that nonsense would not have those defense mechanisms installed and so be far more vulnerable to having their eyes opened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Faith, posted 10-20-2015 2:25 AM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 425 of 860 (771115)
10-20-2015 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by Faith
10-20-2015 3:21 AM


Re: Free Faith...
And yet there is still an unspoken need for you to reject evolution and science at all costs. Even when you finally work out the truth on your own (such as when you rediscovered for yourself and argued quite well how microevolution leads to macroevolution) you then go to extremes to cover it up (as you then immediately started redefining the world in archetypical lawyer manner).
Someone who has been raised in the faith will navely believe what she had been taught and so be very vulnerable to the effects of reality. However, someone who has converted later in life will know what reality is, even if she denies it, and will know what to guard herself against. And, yes, seeing things from someone else's perspective is part of what you must guard against.
BTW, "Morris, Gish, all those guys" lied to you. True, those lies did agree with what you had come to believe, but they are lies nonetheless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Faith, posted 10-20-2015 3:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 426 of 860 (771981)
11-02-2015 7:31 AM


Spam
EvC Forum: Chat/Comment thread

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 427 of 860 (772663)
11-17-2015 2:13 PM


Free Faith
Again, free Faith. A month's suspension? Sheesh. Make it a day.
Percy, I think Faith has somehow gotten under your skin, and that though you wish to do so, you are not dealing out even-handed justice. Even if you were, and you banned members for calling people liars for one month each time (in which case I will see you again in 2026, by which time I'll have worked out my sentence) then this would still be heavy-handed moderation. If this forum exists for you to test out your software, then you shouldn't care what she says. But if it exists for the benefit of the members, or for the furthering of the discussion, then I don't think you'd find one member who'd say the discussion would really be better for Faith being absent for a month.
If there is any member who disagrees and thinks it serves her right, reply to this post and say so. Otherwise, Percy, I know she can be very annoying on occasion, but that is not something that the forum admin should concern himself with.

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by Tangle, posted 11-17-2015 3:38 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 430 by Coyote, posted 11-17-2015 5:39 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 428 of 860 (772672)
11-17-2015 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dr Adequate
11-17-2015 2:13 PM


Re: Free Faith
I did suck air in between my teeth when I read the word 'month'. If I was a defence lawyer, I'd be appealing the sentence. She's got plenty of previous tho' so I'd be at 3 days.
And a tag. And ordered to serve lunch to Muslim at a refugee centre. And say two Hail Maries and an Our Farther. In a Catholic church.
I also agree that you should have spent more time in the sin bin too.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-17-2015 2:13 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-17-2015 4:34 PM Tangle has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 429 of 860 (772681)
11-17-2015 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 428 by Tangle
11-17-2015 3:38 PM


Re: Free Faith
I also agree that you should have spent more time in the sin bin too.
For any particular thing? Only as I recall I have been suspended for a month. If you think I should be suspended again and longer for something else, then this is the thread to argue for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Tangle, posted 11-17-2015 3:38 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Tangle, posted 11-17-2015 5:45 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 430 of 860 (772690)
11-17-2015 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Dr Adequate
11-17-2015 2:13 PM


Re: Free Faith
I agree.
Faith may be totally impervious to reason and logic, but I consider her a dues-paid member in good standing here and would not like to see her suspended a month.
Three days, with credit for time served, should be enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-17-2015 2:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 431 of 860 (772692)
11-17-2015 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by Dr Adequate
11-17-2015 4:34 PM


Re: Free Faith
Dr A writes:
For any particular thing?
Nah, but I think you admit to getting away with rather too much. Mostly, I suspect, because it's amusing. Which I like, if you're going to insult, at least do it with style.
If you think I should be suspended again and longer for something else, then this is the thread to argue for it.
Well no. Personally I'd go for all forums being a near free for all. I'm not too keen about the idea of a judge in session with no published punishment tariffs. But I also recognise the need to moderate and I do accept that this is just a forum where we go to play. So it doesn't matter much. But 30 days is too much.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-17-2015 4:34 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 432 of 860 (772704)
11-17-2015 7:46 PM


Is 30 days excessive? That depends on what the goal is.
If the goal is to give Faith pause to contemplate her blatant violation of the forum rules by getting acerbically personal in her insult, then yes, I think 30 days is a bit harsh. Lord knows we've seen worse around here with less punishment, though I acknowledge this is a repeat offense and probably deserves more time. Still, if a reaction to her repeated offense, 30 days is, imho, excessive.
However, if the goal is to get rid of her, this just might do it.
quote:
What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly - that is the first law of nature. -Voltaire
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by ringo, posted 11-18-2015 11:53 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 433 of 860 (772747)
11-18-2015 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by AZPaul3
11-17-2015 7:46 PM


AZPaul3 writes:
If the goal is to give Faith pause to contemplate her blatant violation of the forum rules by getting acerbically personal in her insult, then yes, I think 30 days is a bit harsh.
Thirty seconds wouldn't accomplish that goal, nor would thirty years. You can't punish a martyr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by AZPaul3, posted 11-17-2015 7:46 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 434 of 860 (774302)
12-15-2015 9:47 PM


Phascism on the Phorum
Apparently EvC is now the place where ideas get silenced for there phailure to conform to the accepted political agenda.
And where that silencing gets cheered.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2015 11:14 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 436 by AZPaul3, posted 12-16-2015 2:02 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 437 by Admin, posted 12-16-2015 7:38 AM Jon has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 435 of 860 (774303)
12-15-2015 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by Jon
12-15-2015 9:47 PM


Re: Phascism on the Phorum
First they came for the Nazis, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Nazi.
And everyone lived happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Jon, posted 12-15-2015 9:47 PM Jon has not replied

  
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