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Author Topic:   Another one that hurts
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 46 of 508 (772480)
11-14-2015 4:29 PM


It would be nice to get one thing straight. I won't hold my breath of course. The problem isn't Muslims. Muslims aren't "bad people" any more than all the rest of us are. The problem is the ideology of Islam. They are all raised in this ideology. Some get the more "idealistic" views of jihad and think they are pleasing God by beheading "infidels" and that they are earning themselves a beautiful carnal paradise when they die by doing this service to "God." They've been taught a false idea of God and that's what makes them dangerous.
The refugees are also Muslims, or most of them are, and they are mostly young men as Coyote pointed out. Why young men? Why not women and children? Why can't they arm themselves and fight the jihadis? Why are they coming to Europe where their ideology tells them it's OK to rape nonMuslim women? And where whatever few of them get the jihadi bug are free to seek "God"s favor by murdering Europeans? Of course it's probably not the refugees who did the Paris attacks. Why aren't we hearing from the refugees themselves by the way? We see pictures of huge crowds of them, where are the interviews? We need to know who they are. We know they are responsible for the rape reports I gave on the gun control thread. That should be reason enough to send them somewhere else.
But again it's the IDEOLOGY that is the problem. They have believed a horrible lie that is going to send them not to their expected paradise but to the Hell where everybody goes who violates the commands of the true God without accepting His mercy through the death of Christ. This is the true God who revealed himself in the Bible and nowhere else. They should be warned, but they may behead you if you try. Missionaries SHOULD try nevertheless, and expect to be beheaded in the service of getting the truth to them. We need missionaries with that kind of courage.
But no sane society invites people into it who have an ideology that considers that society fair game for rape and murder by order of "God."
Oh well, as you all keep saying, my Christian belief is just as evil. Yeah Christians go around blowing up people and raping and so on too. It's all the same thing. And you like the PC psychobabble explanation of the rapes and the murders anyway, at least when Islam does it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-14-2015 6:14 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 47 of 508 (772481)
11-14-2015 5:01 PM


Another thing. This idiotic idea that Islam can "reform" the way Christianity supposedly reformed. This is a ridiculous misreading of history and of the forces behind Islam. The Christian Reformation RESTORED Christianity to its original form after centuries of usurpation by the corrupted Roman church with its pagan and worldly practices. They DID murder those who rejected its false teachings including the true Christians who died by the tens of millions during the Inquisition.
The Reformation went far to undoing all that and restoring the peaceable merciful religion of Christ. The Reformation, incidentally, also arose in the last stages of the period when Islam was encroaching on Europe so really it put a halt to the world ambitions of both the RCC and of Islam. But now we are losing our true Christianity again, so that both Islam and the RCC are regaining power in the world. As I said earlier in the thread, if Europe would return to their Reformation faith they could put a stop to the suicide bombings.
The point is that Islam was never a peaceable merciful religion, it was always dedicated to forcing conversions at the point of the sword and murdering anyone who dissented. It could only reform by changing and giving up its written "holy" books, whereas Christianity reformed by returning to the Bible.
I tell you all this only to get figuratively beheaded again. It's so much fun.
ABE: Reread some posts and see that Tangle thinks reforming Christianity is making it liberal. Oy. Funny, I thought the word referred to the Reformation, my mistake. In other words he wants us to give up the basics of the religion, which is what liberalism does, to conform to the world. Well, it's been happening and it will serve the New World Order Religion of the Antichrist just fine, but it's no Reformation. And as far as getting Islam to "reform" in the liberal directiom goes, good luck with that. Their fundamentalists, unlike Biblical fundamentalists, just kill them. Biblical fundamentalists, on the other hand, tend to be the ones who GET killed. That's what happened during the RCC persecutions.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Asgara, posted 11-14-2015 5:57 PM Faith has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(2)
Message 48 of 508 (772482)
11-14-2015 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
11-14-2015 5:01 PM


Inquisition?
They DID murder those who rejected its false teachings including the true Christians who died by the tens of millions during the Inquisition.
Which inquisition would this be? The scholarly articles I've seen give the number possibly executed during the two inquisitions between 6k.. maybe upwards of 100k. Either a long way from tens of millions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 5:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 49 of 508 (772483)
11-14-2015 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
11-14-2015 1:30 PM


Re: The problem is in our beliefs.
Faith writes:
Hey, nobody wants to understand the reality here. Fine, I'll stay out of it.
No, I want you to observe the global reaction and judge people based on your heart---as Jesus would do. I believe that many people in the US confuse and conflate Christianity with Patriotism. Additionally, I have seen no evidence that the problem is Islam--the greater religious group of a billion people worldwide. I happen to know many Islamic people who are very civilized, moral, and who also have turned their facebook pictures temporarily into the French colors out of respect.
Some of my internet friends live in Sweden. They have very similar dreams and ambitions in life as young Americans--both Christian and secular. They are very similar to Americans and are very respectful of God.
The problem of evil transcends religions and cultural boundaries. Evil is a condition of the human heart--perhaps born out of desperation at times.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 1:30 PM Faith has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 50 of 508 (772485)
11-14-2015 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Asgara
11-14-2015 5:57 PM


Re: Inquisition?
I get the numbers from out of print books mostly. There is really no way to know the numbers but it might be best just to talk in terms of victims of RCC persecution rather than the Inquisition per se, which was just an official form of it. Whole communities were wiped out, and the numbers may also include victims of the persecution that were tortured but didn't die. The main study of the numbers now is
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.html and he ends up accepting the larger numbers reported in the old books.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 51 of 508 (772486)
11-14-2015 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
11-14-2015 4:29 PM


Some get the more "idealistic" views of jihad and think they are pleasing God by beheading "infidels" and that they are earning themselves a beautiful carnal paradise when they die by doing this service to "God."
That's the more idealistic version?
The refugees are also Muslims, or most of them are, and they are mostly young men as Coyote pointed out. Why young men? Why not women and children?
Why? Because of it being completely made up, that's why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 4:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 6:16 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 52 of 508 (772487)
11-14-2015 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
11-14-2015 6:02 PM


Re: The problem is in our beliefs.
To have seen no evidence of a problem with Islam is to be completely out of touch Phat. So you are unaware of the ongoing persecutions and murders of Christians in Africa and other Muslim areas? This is well known in Christian circles though there is the usual PC media downplaying of such things. However, even the Huffington Post has reported on it at times.
Sure there are Muslims who have adapted to the west, and there are Muslims who have superficially adapted but could be persuaded by knowing more about their own religion to commit jihad themselves. You are wrong though, Islam IS the source of the problem, not juist the evil human heart which you and I have too.
ABE: Fortunately most of those billion Muslims either don't know all their religion or aren't inclined to follow the violence in it, but that doesn't change the fact that the violence IS in it and can capture adherents from who knows where at any time. Moderate Muslims need to acknowledge this but it's very rare for them to do so.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 53 of 508 (772488)
11-14-2015 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Dr Adequate
11-14-2015 6:14 PM


And you have a head count? Can we know it please?
Would some pictures help? Here's one.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-14-2015 6:14 PM Dr Adequate has replied

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 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-14-2015 6:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 54 of 508 (772489)
11-14-2015 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
11-14-2015 6:16 PM


And you have a head count? Can we know it please?
The UNHCR has a headcount. Feel free to conduct your own. Let us know how you get on. Otherwise, stop making stuff up.
Would some pictures help? Here's one.
Here's another.

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 Message 53 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 6:16 PM Faith has not replied

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 Message 55 by Coyote, posted 11-14-2015 6:53 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 55 of 508 (772490)
11-14-2015 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Adequate
11-14-2015 6:44 PM


Your headcount link does not seem to list immigrants to Europe.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-14-2015 6:44 PM Dr Adequate has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 56 of 508 (772491)
11-14-2015 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Coyote
11-14-2015 6:53 PM


Feel free to supply the lacuna with anything that isn't made up.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 57 of 508 (772493)
11-14-2015 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
11-14-2015 6:14 PM


Re: The problem is in our beliefs.
To have seen no evidence of a problem with Islam is to be completely out of touch Phat. So you are unaware of the ongoing persecutions and murders of Christians in Africa and other Muslim areas?
Sadly, we can't give any of them refuge in case they're Muslim terrorists. You can never be too careful.

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 Message 52 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 6:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(6)
Message 58 of 508 (772498)
11-14-2015 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Faith
11-14-2015 1:20 PM


Faith writes:
ringo writes:
Our new government is looking at incoming refugees as an opportunity, not a problem.
Opportunity for what?
How about an opportunity to help some people who really need it. Or a chance to save thousands from a life of misery. An opportunity to treat others as we would be treated. An opportunity to treat people as innocent until proven guilty. A chance to be brave and accept the cost of those actions. As well as a chance to spit in the eye of those who would cause these people to flee.
An opportunity to act like a decent human being instead of dropping bombs from the sky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 11-14-2015 1:20 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Coyote, posted 11-14-2015 9:02 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 59 of 508 (772499)
11-14-2015 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Dogmafood
11-14-2015 8:45 PM


An opportunity to act like a decent human being instead of dropping bombs from the sky.
A noble goal.
But, those who are coming to the west for refuge have an obligation too. They should not be trying to bomb and destroy, or hiding those who are, they should not be trying to impose their failed way of life on their new homes, they should respect the laws and customs of their new homes (think Sweden and rape), and they should not be ungrateful and demanding of free stuff, while giving nothing in return.
Is that too much to ask?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Dogmafood, posted 11-14-2015 8:45 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-14-2015 9:30 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 61 by Dogmafood, posted 11-14-2015 10:41 PM Coyote has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 60 of 508 (772500)
11-14-2015 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Coyote
11-14-2015 9:02 PM


But, those who are coming to the west for refuge have an obligation too. They should not be trying to bomb and destroy, or hiding those who are, they should not be trying to impose their failed way of life on their new homes, they should respect the laws and customs of their new homes (think Sweden and rape), and they should not be ungrateful and demanding of free stuff, while giving nothing in return.
Is that too much to ask?
Evidently not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Coyote, posted 11-14-2015 9:02 PM Coyote has not replied

  
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