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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 7 of 2887 (767910)
09-03-2015 12:06 PM


{Non-topic material hidden - Adminnemooseus}
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide stuff.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 44 of 2887 (768010)
09-04-2015 1:24 PM


Its not just the fossils...
Its not just the fossils.
We also have a robust theory that explains all of the evidence and makes successful predictions.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 234 of 2887 (769864)
09-25-2015 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Faith
09-25-2015 7:14 PM


The problem I'm trying to highlight here is that discussions of fossil evolution completely ignore what genetics actually does. Evo theory just goes on and on about how such and such changes occurred over those millions of years without knowing if it is even possible, and in reality it's just not.
One can't just make things up in science, as there are tens of thousands of other scientists out there to check on anything that is proposed, and probably tens of thousands of additional graduate students looking to make a name for themselves. If they can show where the existing models, paradigms, or theories, or even small research papers, are wrong that's just what they'll do.
Creationists, on the other hand, engage in apologetics rather than science, and that is exactly the opposite of science. In apologetics, evidence does not count, rather coming up with plausible-sounding explanations that can explain scripture, satisfy fellow believers, and reinforce their beliefs, is the main goal. Belief is everything, evidence, when it contradicts belief, is ignored, misrepresented, or obfuscated.
Given the posting history of creationists on this, and many other sites, I don't expect any credible refutations of this.
And, given these facts, it is very safe to ignore any pronouncements creationists make about science. You wouldn't pay any attention to a witch doctor's pronouncements about medicine, now would you?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 09-25-2015 7:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 09-26-2015 4:55 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 242 of 2887 (769884)
09-26-2015 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Faith
09-26-2015 4:55 AM


Just a theory????
The first is that it IS just a theory, it really has no hard evidence, it is built out of the very sorts of conjectures I've been talking about here, IMAGINED sequences of how evolution between two creatures COULD HAVE HAPPENED.
Anyone who writes, "It is just a theory" when referring to the theory of evolution exhibits either a profound ignorance of science and how it works, or a total rejection of the scientific method.
The role of theory in science has been explained to you any number of times. I've explained it to you myself, and it would be a waste of time to do so again.
So, I'll just say, again, that creationists have absolutely no business even commenting on science and the results it has produced.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 09-26-2015 4:55 AM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 290 of 2887 (774031)
12-12-2015 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Big_Al35
12-12-2015 11:27 AM


No giant skeletons
I've analyzed about a thousand skeletons over a period of about 40 years. No giants.
I'm also familiar with a lot of the professional literature. No giants.
What we do have are claims that when examined turn out to be fakes, or the bones went missing, or hearsay. No giants.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Big_Al35, posted 12-12-2015 11:27 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 300 of 2887 (774084)
12-13-2015 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by Big_Al35
12-13-2015 6:12 AM


Among the many skeletons I've analyzed were dozens with some degree of cranial deformation. Deformation is found in most areas of the world.
No big deal.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Big_Al35, posted 12-13-2015 6:12 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 319 of 2887 (774122)
12-13-2015 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Big_Al35
12-13-2015 1:15 PM


No giants
...why can't I get you guys to believe in giants?
Don't know about the rest of the folks here, but in my case I've learned a great deal in over 40 years of study of human skeletons. That was about half of my Ph.D. work, and I still get calls from local coroners about once a month to look at bones for them.
Have you ever studied bones, or closely examined a cranium? Or talked to anyone who has?
Until you learn something, and know what you're talking about, don't be trying to sell us internet nonsense.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Big_Al35, posted 12-13-2015 1:15 PM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 347 of 2887 (774239)
12-14-2015 11:16 PM


Giants?
And if the globalists are doing such a terrible job why can't I get you guys to believe in giants?
Because you have presented no evidence for giants.
Whereas we have presented evidence that there are/were no giants.
But then, you seem to be a poster boy for three (or maybe four) of the lines in my signature, below.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 387 of 2887 (775876)
01-06-2016 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 386 by Big_Al35
01-06-2016 9:17 AM


Evidence
"Once the victim has volunteered, proposed or offered..."
You forgot to volunteer, propose or offer any evidence.
All you need to do is present convincing evidence, and that's the one thing you have failed to do.
By the way, "evidence" doesn't mean the type of things you have presented that don't stand up to the least scrutiny. For example, you're trying to tell me normal deformed skulls are aliens of some kind when I've analyzed perhaps a thousand skeletons and have seen most kinds of cranial deformation in the western US.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Big_Al35, posted 01-06-2016 9:17 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 409 of 2887 (776171)
01-09-2016 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Big_Al35
01-09-2016 5:08 PM


Well if you were a globalist, what would be the best way to supress genuine photos of giants?
Why should "globalists" care a whit about giants?
A creative competition such as the worth1000 encouraging outrageous images and fakery. These fake images can then be circulated and promoted. Soon they will be as numerous as the genuine shots and nobody except the experts will be able to distinguish between them. Anyone with a genuine shot can then be silenced or brow beaten and the 'so called authorities' can claim it was fake all along like all the rest. Yet another globalist strategy.
Nonsense.
As for those photos, it is easy to tell they are normal human skeletons photoshopped or otherwise manipulated to change the perceived scale.
If you simply stretch a human skeleton from 5.5 feet to 12 feet in height you run into the cube/square problem. Just one example, is the ankle. The Achilles tendon is not strong enough to support the weight of a 12 foot skeleton in the position it is in in a 5.5 foot skeleton. The talus needs to be moved forward in the foot, creating a greater lever for the tendon so that it can handle the extra weight. Also, many other bones need to be larger and differently proportioned for the same reason--these same problems would apply throughout the skeleton, but we don't see the necessary changes in these fake skeletons. (This is one of the ways to identify fake bigfoot prints as well--the same cube/square mechanical problems would apply to the 8-10 foot bodies bigfoot is supposed to have as it would to a 12 foot one, though perhaps to a lesser degree.)
So, next time you look at one of those "giant" skeletons look to see if the bones are proportioned for a 5.5 foot individual and just scaled up.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Big_Al35, posted 01-09-2016 5:08 PM Big_Al35 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2016 5:58 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 458 of 2887 (818978)
09-04-2017 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by CRR
09-04-2017 8:10 PM



Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by CRR, posted 09-04-2017 8:10 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by CRR, posted 09-04-2017 8:24 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 483 of 2887 (822384)
10-24-2017 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dredge
10-23-2017 11:23 PM


Re: Let me help
Different rates of gradualism is still gradualism.
Do you really think you can defeat the theory of evolution with nonsense such as that? I mean, really?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dredge, posted 10-23-2017 11:23 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 507 of 2887 (824415)
11-28-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by dwise1
11-28-2017 12:50 AM


Re: what a pathetic God Dredge markets
Thou art God.
― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by dwise1, posted 11-28-2017 12:50 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 546 of 2887 (824734)
12-02-2017 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Dredge
12-02-2017 4:26 PM


Creation "science" at work
Well, many fossils have been found but they cannot be submitted as evidence for evolution.
Absolute nonsense, and creationist wishful thinking to boot.
You seem eager to disprove all of evolution based on one fossil (Nebraska Man), but can't accept tens or hundreds of thousands of fossils that show just the opposite?
Creation "science" at work, eh?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Dredge, posted 12-02-2017 4:26 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 610 of 2887 (826188)
12-24-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Dredge
12-23-2017 11:29 PM


Re: what a pathetic God/World/Univers Dredge markets
The conclusion/hypothesis that all life evolved from microbes is "nice to know" for atheists, but to science , it's "useless to know". So for all intents and purposes, it's a philosophical/psychological argument, not a scientific one.
So, what you're saying is that scientific knowledge which explains things about the natural world is "useless" if it contradicts someone's religious beliefs?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Dredge, posted 12-23-2017 11:29 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by RAZD, posted 12-25-2017 7:53 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 618 by Dredge, posted 12-26-2017 12:05 AM Coyote has replied

  
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