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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 886 of 1053 (761459)
07-01-2015 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 885 by kbertsche
07-01-2015 1:39 PM


Re: Again seeking papers
Thanks for that link Kbertsche.
I'm going to still hunt down those other papers, not because I'll learn much (those papers are as old as I am and I'm sure state of the art has moved on), but because I'm just wanting a total library of all these papers that Batchelor refers to (but doesn't show).
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 885 by kbertsche, posted 07-01-2015 1:39 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 887 of 1053 (761588)
07-02-2015 8:53 PM


Blog
In case you want to see where all your shared knowledge has gone, my friends kept encouraging me to put my anti-Batchelor rants in a blog format so they could share them.
Thanks all for the assistance.
JB
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


(1)
Message 888 of 1053 (761707)
07-04-2015 2:30 PM


Latest Curriculum Entry
A new installment in my "curriculum" is up on the blog.
As this material is almost all the direct result of my participation on this forum and the continued generosity of it's participants, I am hoping to share the results of everyone's effort here in this manner. If this is some violation of protocol, please tell me now and I will happily figure out how to share my work here in a manner that is within the rules.
Thanks
ABE: I have zero financial incentive in said effort or blog. No advertising etc.
JB
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 889 of 1053 (761914)
07-06-2015 1:53 PM


Geologic column
I'm working on an installment explaining the geologic column.
Now I understand that it would actually be physically impossible for the entire geologic column to exist everywhere under our feet - materials are being moved around in front of our eyes daily. But just so I can say for sure whether it does or does not exist *anywhere* (typical creationist claim that is does not), I have been investigating. Not sure why this claim matters so much to them, but whatever.
Can anyone vouch for the information in this TalkOrigins page, or suggest another source.
Thanks.
JB

Replies to this message:
 Message 890 by 46&2, posted 07-06-2015 2:17 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied
 Message 891 by edge, posted 07-06-2015 9:58 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
46&2
Junior Member (Idle past 3153 days)
Posts: 24
From: Kailua-Kona
Joined: 04-10-2014


Message 890 of 1053 (761916)
07-06-2015 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 889 by ThinAirDesigns
07-06-2015 1:53 PM


Re: Geologic column
Though I am not qualified to vouch for the content of the article, I think it would be interesting to note in your blog that the author, Glen Morton, is a former YEC. Here is an article he wrote about his conversion:
Old Earth Creation Science Testimony - Why I Left Young Earth Creationism, by Glenn Morton
Edited by 46&2, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 889 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 07-06-2015 1:53 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 895 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 07-07-2015 10:51 AM 46&2 has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 891 of 1053 (761950)
07-06-2015 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 889 by ThinAirDesigns
07-06-2015 1:53 PM


Re: Geologic column
Now I understand that it would actually be physically impossible for the entire geologic column to exist everywhere under our feet - materials are being moved around in front of our eyes daily. But just so I can say for sure whether it does or does not exist *anywhere* (typical creationist claim that is does not), I have been investigating. Not sure why this claim matters so much to them, but whatever.
I see no reason why it could not exist in these locations. At the same time, I see no reason why it would necessarily exist anywhere on the planet. However, the point is that it does exist despite YEC claims.
This is really a YEC red-herring claim.
Can anyone vouch for the information in this TalkOrigins page, or suggest another source.
The people who can vouch for it would be those in the oil and gas field such as Glenn Morton.
However, as you mentioned, this seems to be important to YECs and unimportant to geologists. It appears to simply be an argument propogated through the literature, having little or no significance. The other point is that they are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 889 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 07-06-2015 1:53 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 892 by Faith, posted 07-06-2015 10:10 PM edge has replied
 Message 894 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 07-07-2015 10:49 AM edge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 892 of 1053 (761955)
07-06-2015 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 891 by edge
07-06-2015 9:58 PM


Re: Geologic column
The column has many local versions but the Geo Time Scale incorporates them all. Which are you all talking about? I'm surprised anybody would say the complete Geo Time Scale can't exist in any one place. I've never said that, and I've seen many cases where the whole range of time periods is represented.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by edge, posted 07-06-2015 9:58 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 893 by Coyote, posted 07-07-2015 12:02 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 896 by edge, posted 07-07-2015 1:02 PM Faith has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 893 of 1053 (761959)
07-07-2015 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 892 by Faith
07-06-2015 10:10 PM


Re: Geologic column
The column has many local versions but the Geo Time Scale incorporates them all.
So? What's the alternative? We're talking about 4+ billion years here. Of course the local columns will fit in there somewhere! Where else are they going to go?
Which are you all talking about? I'm surprised anybody would say the complete Geo Time Scale can't exist in any one place. I've never said that, and I've seen many cases where the whole range of time periods is represented.
Your comments about matters scientific have been shown to be worthless (although even a stopped clock is correct twice a day).
Why do you even bother? You're not fooling us, and you're probably not even fooling yourself.
You are anti-rational, anti-evidence, and anti-science, and yet you think you are qualified to lecture scientists on what they should be doing, and how they should be doing it? What a joke! What you are espousing is the exact opposite of science.
And if you think I'm being hard on you, my comments are based directly on the hundreds or thousands of posts you have made here. You aren't exactly hiding what you believe.
And that is the core of it. You are relying on belief rather than evidence, all the while attempting to "educate" those of us who are relying on evidence rather then belief.
I have to say you're about the nicest creationist to post here, but you're also the most obstinate. You've yet to see a contrary fact or theory that you won't try to beat into submission to your anti-science beliefs--no matter what the evidence of the real world shows.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
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ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 894 of 1053 (761992)
07-07-2015 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 891 by edge
07-06-2015 9:58 PM


Re: Geologic column
Edge writes:
I see no reason why it could not exist in these locations. At the same time, I see no reason why it would necessarily exist anywhere on the planet. However, the point is that it does exist despite YEC claims.
Ok, that' how I understand it as well. Thanks.
As I show below with three pictures, I think of the geologic column as a human construct just as a color chart is a human construct.
You will find places on earth where there are fewer colors represented in real life (like the desert) and areas where there are more colors of the chart represented (the tropics). How many we find in different areas or whether we can get all of them represented in one camera shot or not does nothing to diminish the organisational value of the chart.
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by edge, posted 07-06-2015 9:58 PM edge has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 895 of 1053 (761994)
07-07-2015 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 890 by 46&2
07-06-2015 2:17 PM


Re: Geologic column
Thanks for that link. I will use it.
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 890 by 46&2, posted 07-06-2015 2:17 PM 46&2 has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(6)
Message 896 of 1053 (762007)
07-07-2015 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 892 by Faith
07-06-2015 10:10 PM


Re: Geologic column
The column has many local versions but the Geo Time Scale incorporates them all. Which are you all talking about? I'm surprised anybody would say the complete Geo Time Scale can't exist in any one place. I've never said that, and I've seen many cases where the whole range of time periods is represented.
I think of the Geological Time Scale as an immense tape that records geological events. There are many tracks on this tape, one for each location on earth, blindly painting a picture of what was happening at any given time.
At any given time, there are hundreds of processes being recorded on various tracks and nothing at all on others.
On some tracks there are gaps in the record, processes occur for a while and then, seemingly stop, only to begin again.
In fact, it appears that some parts of the record are deleted, but at no time are all of the tracks silent. Somewhere, there is activity.
If we are lucky, we can find a track where there is continuous information recorded on very long stretches of the tape, but that is not the rule. We live on an active planet and there are also pesky processes that erase the record on one track or more.
Often we see trends of ancient life in the record, that we describe such as 'no life', 'early life', 'old life', 'middle life', etc.; that appear to span all of the tracks at once. This is the record of life on earth.
Each of those tracks is a 'geological column', each unique to its location with its sedimentation, igneous activity, mountain building and erosional gaps showing what has happened at that very spot.
This will continue until the tape (time) stops or all processes stop. While we have an idea when it began, and we can observe the present record forming, we cannot see the end. The record lies in the past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 892 by Faith, posted 07-06-2015 10:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 897 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 07-07-2015 1:42 PM edge has replied
 Message 899 by Faith, posted 07-25-2015 10:09 AM edge has replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 897 of 1053 (762011)
07-07-2015 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 896 by edge
07-07-2015 1:02 PM


Re: Geologic column
Excellent imagery Edge. I'll use that if you don't mind.
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 896 by edge, posted 07-07-2015 1:02 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 898 by edge, posted 07-07-2015 4:04 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 898 of 1053 (762031)
07-07-2015 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 897 by ThinAirDesigns
07-07-2015 1:42 PM


Re: Geologic column
Feel free. The analogy can be carried out to almost any level on any subject. Emphasize that erosion 'erases' parts of the recording. That's how we know that it happens, regardless of what some YECs seem to think about the non-existence of unconformities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 897 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 07-07-2015 1:42 PM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 899 of 1053 (763474)
07-25-2015 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 896 by edge
07-07-2015 1:02 PM


Re: Geologic column
That's an impressive description of how a geologist thinks. It's really amazing how the human mind has such organizing power that even a random ink blot, or the random depositions of sediments and dead things by a worldwide Flood, can be perceived as a coherent meaningful story.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 896 by edge, posted 07-07-2015 1:02 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 900 by jar, posted 07-25-2015 10:13 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 902 by edge, posted 07-25-2015 1:41 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 900 of 1053 (763475)
07-25-2015 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 899 by Faith
07-25-2015 10:09 AM


Re: Geologic column
Faith writes:
It's really amazing how the human mind has such organizing power that even a random ink blot, or the random depositions of sediments and dead things by a worldwide Flood, can be perceived as a coherent meaningful story.
Correct. Anyone who thinks that the evidence shows any support for dead things caused by a worldwide flood is simply delusional.
No one has ever been able to explain how any flood could deposit what is actually seen.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 899 by Faith, posted 07-25-2015 10:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
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