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Author
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Topic: Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: Good people tend not to do evil though.
So you define killing jihadists as "not evil"? Of course it's easy to call yourself "good" by definition - but the jihadists do that too. You really don't seem to have thought out your position beyond the initial sound bite.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: Are you suggesting that the troops presently fighting and killing jihadists are doing evil?
Yes.
Greatest I am writes: Should we move them out of the area and let ISIS just do whatever it likes?
ISIS does whatever it likes anyway. The war is already lost. The battle SHOULD have been for hearts and minds, not an everlasting body count.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 268 of 375 (759974)
06-16-2015 12:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 266 by mikechell
06-16-2015 12:41 PM
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
mikechell writes: Our people, and other Country's people are trying to do what they must to prevent evil from spreading.
They're doing it wrong.
mikechell writes: If we were allowed to complete the mission, ISIS would already be stopped.
Another conspiracy theory. 
mikechell writes: The war is only perceived lost because we are held back by bleeding hearts who think you can "win the hearts" of Radical Islamist.
We need to win the hearts and minds of the NON-RADICALS.
mikechell writes: So, the only way to prevent them from turning the world into their "caliphate", is to stop them where they are and destroy them before they destroy us.
And another domino theory?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 266 by mikechell, posted 06-16-2015 12:41 PM | | mikechell has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: That means education of those minds to a better way of thinking and that means ending the garbage that they are learning today from their holy books.
You can't just erase everything on their hearts and minds and start over. You have to compete with what's there now. You have to offer them something better but frankly, you're offering them garbage.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: I offered nothing in the way of changes but do suggest they get changes from within their own religion so I don't know what you mean by my offering garbage.
Telling Muslims to just change the way they interpret the Qur'an is garbage.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: Are you a Muslim? If not, have you asked any how they would feel about it?
Have you? How many Muslims have you converted from radical to moderate with your "just say no" philosophy?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: I have no knowledge of any conversions. I did not claim any.
Isn't conversion what you're advocating?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: The jihadists just have to start walking the peace loving talk of the mainstream Muslims.
So you want jihadists to magically convert to peace-loving mainstream Muslims. That's about as practical as asking elephants to convert to butterflies.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: You seem convinced that the only way is to kill them off.
You don't seem to be paying attention. I've said that YOUR idea of killing them off won't work and YOUR idea of asking them to magically switch sides won't work - in other words, YOU have no workable solution.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: Assumption not based on facts or thought.
On the contrary, we know that killing jihadists doesn't discourage jihadists because they love martyrdom - they want to die for their cause. And we also know that they aren't going to miraculously become good little girls and boys on your say-so because they would have already done that. You have no solution.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: Not my say so but the say so of their more left leaning peers.
But you're agreeing with those left-leaning peers, aren't you? You're the one who started the topic, not those left-leaning peers.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: I do not agree with those on the left but see them as a better alternative than the right wing fundamentals.
You don't get to choose the "better alternative". Your OP asks, "Should we urge our governments to force changes to the violent misogynistic Qur’an and Bible to make those documents more civilized?" The question is stupid because our governments don't have the ability to "force" anything on either Christians or Muslims. Edited by ringo, : Added word 'anything".
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: So you think we live in religion run states instead of government run states. I do not.
No, I think we live in states where the government doesn't/can't legislate religion.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: Hogwash. Hint. Taxing power.
Huh? Try to make sense. Use sentences.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes: What I meant that Government can and does control the churches tax exempt status and can withdraw it as required.
The government can not tax radicals into moderates.
Greatest I am writes: Let me add that Governments already force churches to comply with some secular laws.
But it can't force them to change their doctrine.
Greatest I am writes: I see no reason to not tie their immoral homophobia and misogyny to their tax exemption.
The reason is freedom of religion. Everybody is entitled to homophobic and/or misogynistic beliefs. The government can only forbid them from acting on their beliefs.
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