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Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Open-minded Skepticism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I ran across this article, and it is nice to see other people on my wavelength:
quote: Open minded skepticism -- willingness to consider the possibility of concepts that are not invalidated by objective empirical evidence, but remaining skeptical of their value until there is some validation for them. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : /iby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Well, yes, hardly original though, millions think and feel that way - what's new here? So now you agree the (C) is the position of choice when there is insufficient information to make an evidence informed decision:
As that is the open-minded skeptical position. Good. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I'm curious. Have you heard anyone espousing a version of skepticism different from this? Because that seems a rather standard description. Short answer: yes. Longer answer -- see other discussions (I can provide links if interested) and answer to Tangle. Essentially the part of remaining open-minded is what is neglected. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Get over yourself RAZ, trying to jemmy your little model into the discussion we were having missed the entire point. Remember, it was about beliefs, not facts or decisions? Beliefs are non-rational, as you demonstrate yourself by claiming to believe in god (Deist) whilst being agnostic! Bonkers man. Just because you still don't get it doesn't make it bonkers, it just makes your view limited and narrow-minded. You focused on your definitions as a shield and missed the wider application\discussion. That is why I introduced\tried a different way of looking at the issue ... which you just rejected. But please return to that thread to continue that particular discussion if that is your wish, because this thread is about being an open-minded skeptic, and not about pointless arguments about arbitrarily categorizing beliefs.
There's a whole world of the non-rational out there - love, hate, happiness, desire, beliefs, misery, hope, despair, longing,... These are governed by personality traits, hormones, upbringing, drugs, time-of-life, disposition, class, morality etc etc. Stick them in your little boxes and its gigo all the way down. Actually, what they do is operate to move you to position (D) ... the irrational position ... the "leap of faith\belief\opinion" position ... if you let them. So, again, in terms of the topic, of being (or not being) an open-minded skeptic, you do agree that position (C) is the logical end position when there is insufficient information to make an evidence informed decision, and that the answer is "I don't know" ... unless of course you insist on making a choice based on your (choose to be closed minded) opinion. To keep an open mind you have to consider multiple results possible when you don't know. You have to be willing to choose (C) rather than (D), and say "I don't know" ... As the article said:
quote: ie -- you need to be skeptical of your own beliefs and opinions, of the inadequately evidenced conclusions you have reached, and you need to consider the alternative/s to be open possibilities.
quote: You need to be open minded and skeptical, to doubt yourself, you need to make "room to grow"
quote: And, imho, it needs to be active\real doubt, not just lip service. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... I see a clear difference between being a skeptic and being a denialist. A skeptic doesn't accept a claim at face value, but he keeps his mind open. A denialist just dismisses the claim as some kind of delusion. Indeed. The evidence for global climate change is whelming.
quote: The difference between a true skeptic and a denialist is that the true skeptic is skeptical of his own position and looks for evidence to invalidate it, while the denialist doesn't and is only concerned with cherry picking the tidbits of evidence that supports his position.
This is also why I don't call climate change deniers as "skeptics". They will deny climate change regardless of what evidence they see. They just deny. Pseudoskepticism\false skepticism:
quote: Bold added.
... But because of the air is a lot thinner up there, the lightning dissipates a lot faster so it glows up a large volume. Elves, Sprites & Blue Jets: Earth's Weirdest Lightning Excellent example. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Of course I 'got' what you were saying ... You believe in God without evidence! ... So, no, you did not \ do not get it. You see only half the answer because that fits your categories of how things work.
So, again, in terms of the topic, of being (or not being) an open-minded skeptic, you do agree that position (C) is the logical end position when there is insufficient information to make an evidence informed decision, and that the answer is "I don't know" ... unless of course you insist on making a choice based on your (choose to be closed minded) opinion. No. I reject the entire proposition that the human mind is open to such a reductionist approach. ... Because you choose to be close minded?
... Rationalism and the scientific method has proved to be a fantastic mechanism for understanding simple realities such as the age of rock, how organisms change over time, how to confirm a medical process is efficacious or harmful, ... Which is path (A) ...
... but so far it can't begin to tell me why I love the smell of wild garlic. (Don't try to google that for a generic link - it too can't make the associations.) ... and position (C) says "I don't know" to the question of "why I love the smell of wild garlic" or the color green, the taste of chocolate or whatever else is not confirmed by the scientific method. Proof again that you don't get it. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi mikechell and welcome to the fray.
Really ... be a skeptic, as long as there is no concrete proof of the subject. In the face of absolute proof, skepticism = "Mary, Mary, quite contrary!" However, being skeptical of everything, taken to extremes, leaves you with no reason to investigate new things. Thus you need a balance with open-mindedness ... or to put it another way, you need to be skeptical of the skeptic reaction\position as well, and be able to look at the matter from different angles. Enjoy
... as you are new here, some posting tips: type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy and you can type [qs=RAZD]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
RAZD writes: quotes are easy or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote: also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window. For other formatting tips see Posting TipsFor a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
So, as long as you believe the rock is soft, like a nerf ball, ... There are rocks that float. But based on the evidence of past experiences with rocks we can have a certain degree of expectations that -- all things being equal -- that those experiences will be reflected in the present. However, we could also be observing a never seen before object that looks like a rock ...
... it won't hurt you when it hits you in the head??? You can't be sure until tested.
The cat's alive !! There is a degree of uncertainty in any observation. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1665 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Ummm Yeah, it does. Green is in the electro-magnetic spectrum. Most people only have three color receptors that define our "primary" colors. Some females have four with orange added due to some sex linked gene associated with colorblindness in males.
Tetrachromacy occurs in birds, fish, amphibians, reptiles and insects. They see four primary colors. What you see depends on what you look with. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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