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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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[ Some good points, but they're directed more at a specific participant rather than at the discussion's topic, so I'm hiding this. Click "peek" to see content. --Admin ]
HBD you are badgering me. I've given a reasonable enough general idea of how it could have happened many times. You do get it wrong a LOT, make up stuff I didn't say to object to and so on. All I did this time was say the Flood would have acted like a transgressing sea, a perfectly reasonable idea, and you are badgering me about details. Stop it. "What-ifs" are not evidence. You have been posting "what-ifs" here for years, and they are still not evidence, no matter how much you might believe/hope they are. If the evidence (that you don't believe in) shows your "what-ifs" are nonsense, they're gone! You seem to think that any "what-if" you make up to offer a counter explanation to a scientific theory or scientific evidence is equally valid. That's nonsense! There may be multiple "what-ifs" for a given set of facts, but they can be evaluated in terms of their plausibility, and ranked from highly plausible to abject nonsense. Just because you can come up with a "what-if" doesn't make it plausible. You really are not qualified to even utter the term "science," let alone think what you are doing resembles science. What you are doing is the exact opposite. You should at least admit that to yourself and save all of us thousands of posts. Edited by Admin, : Hide content.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
So what was missing from your responses was evidence. Rhetorically asking a question isn't evidence.
But it is! Any alternate explanation for a scientific fact or theory, no matter how implausible, creates enough doubt that one's continued belief in biblical explanations remains possible! You thought evidence mattered? Silly boy!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You say 'drill holes" so I'm looking for holes in the rock face. I'm thinking the charges would have to be inserted into the rock face from the front through the rock that ultimately gets blasted away, but that doesn't make sense, it's just what the idea of drill holes suggests. I don't see any pattern of holes except in the picture Percy sent me where there are quite a few horizontal gashes between the lines he drew.
Faith, the problem, as shown here once again, is that you are willing to opine on matters of which you know nothing. Most folks I know will look up something they don't know, and learn from that. I highly recommend it.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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ABE: Turns out it was really rather a simple problem caused by people who are aware of the procedures of road-cut blasting not realizing that someone unfamiliar with them would read "holes" as something you see from the front. Right! You didn't know what posters were talking about, so you proceeded to opine away from ignorance rather than looking things up. That is happening all the time. Some of the posters here are true experts their fields, while you are completely unfamiliar with those fields. But you operate from the assumption that you know better than the experts and proceed to opine at length, resisting mightily any attempts to clarify things or to actually learn something. That is why some of these threads run on so long, and follow so many unnecessary rabbit holes into the depths. It is not the fault of posters who are far more patient than you deserve, it is because of your unwillingness to accept anything outside of your pre-conceived beliefs--no matter how well documented, or how much evidence is presented.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Interesting article:
Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism http://phys.org/...-evolution-basic-geology-creationism.html In the ongoing conflict between science and creationism, evolution is usually a main point of contention. The idea that all life on Earth evolved from a common ancestor is a major problem for creationists. As a geologist, though, I think that the rocks beneath our feet offer even better arguments against creationism. For the creationist model doesn't square with what you can see for yourself. And this has been known since before Darwin wrote a word about evolution. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I'd rather not get into an argument about this now, I'd rather see what happens in an experiment if you don't mind. So do the experiment. Then maybe you'll only be 200-300 years behind what science has already discovered. Its a start--if you can accept the results of your own experiments.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I could do a dry angle-of-repose experiment now, getting back to Coragyps' challenge, but the others I really can't set up properly and want to wait until family get here toward the end of June. They can also get some of the material I need that would be hard for me to get. Fair enough. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I'm trying to insure that this thread in which so many have invested so much can resume discussion of the topic by making sure you're able to assure yourself of the way sediments are really deposited.
Invested so much? I think the investments were wasted. Faith has stated many times that she does not follow the evidence, but follows belief instead. No matter the quality or amount of the evidence, it is to be denied if it contradicts her a priori belief system. Reading this and other threads has indeed been a lesson in abnormal psychology. The adamantly maintained but flimsily supported belief-system--maintained in spite of the huge amounts of evidence that have been patiently supplied to contradict it--can only be described as anti-rational. All the efforts of a great many posters to present evidence have had no positive result. Can we admit now that this is and has been a huge waste of time? Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I do NOT argue on the basis of faith and I DO argue from the evidence. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Faith upthread writes: I've stated I'm no longer making claims for which I don't have evidence. Faith writes:
There is no evidence for a global flood. That religious belief has long since been disproved. As I said, I'm no longer claiming anything I can't prove. This is my hypothesis, period. My hypothesis is that the Flood laid down ALL the strata, and that would include the Supergroup. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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The problem we are seeing here is anything that might cast doubt on a biblical interpretation must be denied, no matter what the evidence shows.
Faith will put biblical interpretation or belief over real world evidence, no matter what the evidence or relative merits of the interpretation. She has told us this many times. Those of us who do science are not used to that kind of argument. Not surprising, as it is the exact opposite of science. We tend to follow the evidence where it leads, while Faith and other creationists deny, obfuscate, misinterpret, or otherwise ignore the evidence when it contradicts belief--anything to make it go away. The problem (for them) is that the evidence does not go away. Denying, obfuscating, misinterpreting, or otherwise ignoring the evidence has been getting harder for over 200 years, and probably since The Enlightenment (also known as the Age of Reason), which showed that we no longer have to kowtow to the shamans amongst us. To tie this back to the OP subject of the "great flood"--that was one of the first lines of evidence that showed that the shamans amongst us were completely wrong, and had been wrong for thousands of years. The evidence shows that the flood of the bible simply never happened. But, true to form, creationists continue to deny, obfuscate, misinterpret, or otherwise ignore the evidence when it contradicts their beliefs. What can you do with folks who don't rely on evidence? That's perhaps a good question for a new thread.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. |
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