Roy Moore, Alabama Chief Idiot back in the news yet again.

Marriage in the Bible was a personal contract witnessed by friends, not society at large. For most of biblical history it was a matter of the man taking the woman into his tent or other dwelling place, which act was then acknowledged by the local witnesses and perhaps celebrated by a party, or not.One of the big problems with this issue is that the government is involved in marriage at all. It's none of their business. Gays could pretend to marry each other and recognize it among themselves without cramming it down the throats of the rest of us.And since it is now taken for granted that the government validates it, if it validates a perversion it's in trouble. There IS a God and He doesn't let a government get away with perverted laws, just as judgment is also brewing against the official sanctioning of the murder of the unborn.Won't even comment on your illogical definitional gobbledygook. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

From a legal perspective, marriage is just a contract that establishes rights and obligations.You're talking about marriage as a religious institution.Nobody wants to change the religious aspects of marriage, they only want to change the legal ones.

No I am not talking about marriage as a religious institution but as a universally recognized institution in all cultures. Really there shouldn't BE any legal criteria. It should be a private matter recognized in a general way.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

But there has always been a legal criteria. The Jews had laws governing marriage. Why do you keep posting stuff that is so obviously just bullshit that it destroys any chance of anyone taking anything you say seriously. So you post yet more utterly stupid lies as a response?Sheesh Faith.Not just that but is there ANY reason that any nations should do anything more than chuckle about a judgement from the god you try to market?

Ok, tell us about those "laws governing marriage" the Jews had. And remember, I said "for most of biblical history."Here's a page on it: I shouldn't have said there should be no "legal" aspects to it, I just mean national government should stay out of it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Different cultures have different religious aspects and different governments have different legal aspects. There is no universally recognized institution unless you strip all the different marriages of their defining qualities.Which, of course, is what you will do and claim that they're all just between a man and a woman. Well, there's a lot more to it than that. Then forget the whole legal aspect of it. You can go have your private religious marriages outside of the government like the Mormons and Wiccans do.And too, all the legal stuff that people are doing for the gays must be inconsequential to you if you don't think there should be any legal criteria. Instead, though, you're acting like it will actually affect you in some way. But it won't.And of course, despite your opinion that there shouldn't be any legal criteria, you would demand the legal protections that you'd expect from a marriage if and when you ever found yourself in a courtroom. Then you're not even talking about what people are talking about with gay marriage. They're just talking about the legal institution. They couldn't care less about your private matters.The only leg you're ever going to be left with to stand on, is all the nonsense you spout about gay marriage leading to the judgement of the nation.But that's just religious belief and should have zero impact on the legality of the situation.

IT ISN'T ABOUT AFFECTING *ME* OR ANY PRIVATE ENTITY OR OTHER MARRIAGES. IT'S ABOUT VALIDATING SOMETHING THAT IN THE NATURE OF THINGS CAN'T BE VALIDATED AND MAKING EVERYBODY TREAT IT AS VALID. Official mind-rape.And I should not have said "legal" because of course legalities are involved in validating a marriage, I just mean GOVERNMENT should stay out of it. There shouldn't be a GOVERNMENT license for instance. But there is and there is no way to take it back now.

Sure Faith.You bought wives just like any other property (and sold kids the same way). One party set a price and the negotiations started. How man cattle or sheep or goats for that little doe eyed piece.The laws governed marriage between tribes and what to do with an excess widow. They established treaties and alliances, marriages for political or economic purposes.This remained true throughout the Biblical fables.Gotta ask yet again Faith, have you ever read the Bible?One way is see a woman prisoner you want and take her. Find the guy with an excess of daughters to get rid of and water his flock. Rape some virgin and then pay off her dad. Buy some property and get a wife thrown in as part of the deal. I can keep going just about all day but not every single example shown is a matter of contract.Shall I keep going?Have you read Gen. 29:15-30, 1 Sam. 18:27, Hosea 1:1-3, 1 Kings 11:1-3, Esther 2:3-4, 1 Sam. 18:27?They are all examples of "Biblical Marriage". Edited by jar, : left out a closing quote markEdited by jar, : appalin spallin (mine not the Bibles)

Well, jar, your examples show that marriage was a local community matter in ancient Israel just as I said.The idea of getting government out of marriage is not as strange as some may think. I haven't followed the arguments but there are plenty of people who have been thinking along these lines and many with the objective of solving the gay marriage flap. Here's a GOOGLE PAGE on the subject. One interesting fact I found here is that state government did NOT license marriages until after the Civil War and not in all states of the US until 1920. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Then you really shouldn't care at all. Why would you care about that? Especially if it doesn't affect you?And if it truly cannot be validated in nature, then it doesn't matter at all if governments are validating it "outside of nature" - it still wouldn't be valid in nature and you should have no complaint.But regardless, it has been validated from a legal standpoint. And no, you don't have to treat it as valid.You can keep going on believing that all the gay marriages are invalid even thought the state has recognized them.Now that you've changed your argument to this, you really don't have any leg to stand on.Under this standpoint, there really is no good reason for you to oppose the state recognizing gay peoples' marriages. It has zero impact on you and you don't even have to think they're valid either.There is absolutely zero benefit to yourself in you opposing it. From a legal standpoint it is a contract. Who would oversee the the particulars of, and any disagreements within, the contract if not the government?Further, whoever you do choose to govern these contracts is going to end up being a governing body anyways. So it might as well be the already established government.Even more so, governments have been involved in marriages since governments have existed. That's the whole point of having contacts is so that a governing body can come in and rule on it if anything ever goes wrong.

I happen to care about the condition of society itself, not just my own little life, which has never been a part of my thinking on this.However, it does seem that no matter how you cut it, they are still going to persecute Christian businesses for refusing to provide wedding services for a gay wedding.

Any actual evidence of damage to "society itself" from recognizing same sex marriage? Or just your typical irrational paranoia?

So, doom and gloom from the Almighty God if we let them gays get married?Is that about all of it?Or is there some other way that you think gay marriage is going to affect the condition of society?

Sorry Faith but they are examples of the State (several states) sanctioning marriage. There was no other government at the time. You want examples of government sanctioning marriage, well the Bible was that basis, in fact many of those examples com from "the Laws & the Prophets".Did you not see the references to Deuteronomy and Judges and Kings in what I posted?Of course, we are certainly wiser and far more moral today than Jesus or any of the Prophets or even the God(s) of the Bible and we simply don't condone Biblical Marriage practices.

No matter how many times you repeat falsehoods they are still not true.And Faith, that also has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread which is about the utter stupidity of Judge Roy Moore.