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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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I see no increases in government.
We will measure the success or failure based on the relative impact on US citizens over the next 100 years. AbE:
marc9000 writes: In other words, elect Democrats! Surrender freedom! Ignore the 10th amendment! Well, as a long term Republican (since I worked as campaign manager for Ike in a class mock convention) I must point out that there is not a single current Republican candidate that would make a pimple on Goldwater or Rockefeller or Roosevelt or Eisenhower or Nixon's ass. They are all simply pathetic little fascists licking the soles of their masters boots. But no, there is no need to surrender any freedoms and certainly no threat to the 10th. Amendment. And I'd love to see even a single Republican candidate at any level of government that was not just simpering whore or who showed even a modest capability of rational thought. I think it is disgusting and pathetically pitiful how far the Grand Old Party has fallen since the Reagan coup and Christian Fascist takeover. Edited by jar, : see AbE:Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What action do I propose to "do something" about my fear of a future financial crisis? And here's my answer - THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD STOP BORROWING MONEY. Do you have any answers to global warming that are that direct and simple? In other words, you are not personally going to do anything about your fear of a future crisis. You want the government to fix the problem while you go on doing what you do. On the other hand, you want people who are concerned about global warming to take on the problem strictly by taking personal actions. No, I don't have a solution for global climate change that involves a bunch of people sitting on their butts ranting about government spending all the while sucking off the government teat. But then, I don't think that's a great way to judge a solution.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
marc9000 writes: I can give you examples from my country. Many posters in this thread have indicated that "something must be done", to combat/control global warming. But there have been no examples. One way is to go the nuclear . The idea is to not only built new nuclear power stations, but also to replace existing coal fired power stations with nuclear stations at the end of their life-spans. This is not an ideal way, but it is a lot better as far as greenhouse gases are concerned.
quote:Climate change is addressed in the last paragraph. quote:SA also has the huge problem that easily accessible and obtainable coal resources and reserves are running out rapidly. The result is that alternatives for coal have to be found urgently anyway. Alternative energy would be the ideal, but the technologies involved in using alternative energies as a baseline (instead of coal and nuclear) are just not available yet. While existing, proven technologies are utilised, a lot of research on alternative energies are being conducted. One of the major organisations involved is Sanedi. Solar farms, wind farms, etc. have been opened with the accompanying research in improving the technologies. One of the units at the second largest coal fired power station in the country has already been converted to be fired by Underground Coal Gasification (UCG). Sasol has been running a pilot project utilising UCG on one of their major plants (converting UCG into chemicals). The major greenhouse gases get captured instead of being released into the atmosphere.Futhermore, a lot of research and exploration is being done on shale gas and CBM. marc9000 writes: Actually, coal and oil would be targets for the simple reason that they are the main culprits. Coal is a lot more detrimental to the atmosphere than the gases extracted from the earth. Simple chemistry.
What suggestions do you have? Fossil fuels seem to be the target. marc9000 writes: Well, in my country large swaths of the population not having electricity would be very detrimental to the chances of the ruling party getting voted back into power (excuse the pun) What steps should be taken to cut back their use? Do any of your proposals NOT involve politics? Edited by Pressie, : Added sentence
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Show your figures.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So above I listed some communal changes I'd like to see the US adopt.
In my own life I also try to do things that will reduce may contributions to global warming. I drive much less; use my bicycle more. I take bags to the store when shopping. When I change or upgrade appliances I try to get more energy efficient ones. I changed out the heating and AC at home for a CFC free high efficiency unit even though I may not live long enough to recoup the cost. I use only cold water clothes washing and do fewer but larger loads. Also returned to sun drying. I wash dishes by hand and stopped using the dishwasher. I have moved to LED lighting. In winter I set the thermostat to mid-high 70s and in summer to low-mid 80s. This significantly lowers heating and AC usage. AC still runs a bunch during the summer. I try to always turn out lights when I am not using them. In all they are small efforts and certainly insignificant to the overall picture but reasonable.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
They have a reason to lie, the oldest reason in the world. Power and money. Looks like you and a bunch of other denialists got scammed
Ultimate Wealth Report - Ultimate Wealth Report - Real Asset Investing to Fight Inflation
Gotta love those conspiracy theorists and their patsies. What in the world does this investment guru's advertising have to do with this thread? Don't you even read and investigate your own sources? This site:
... Power and money. Is your "investment guru's" page of falsehoods about climate change ... Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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frako Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
No, I don't have a solution for global climate change Geneticly engineer an organism that thrives on crude oil and changes it in to something we cant burn for fuel. Then infect all oil fields with the bug. Now i know many would die because of the sudden lack of energy on the market, but my guess is that number would be less then what we are going to have to face with climate change. Once the supply is gone humanity will find a way to live without fossil fuels in a short amount of time. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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New York Times writes: But newly released documents show the extent to which Dr. Soon’s work has been tied to funding he received from corporate interests. He has accepted more than $1.2 million in money from the fossil-fuel industry over the last decade while failing to disclose that conflict of interest in most of his scientific papers. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work. Deeper Ties to Corporate Cash for Doubtful Climate ResearcherFundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
A dishwasher is actually more energy efficient than hand washing.
Built-In Dishwashers Versus Hand-Washing: Which Is Greener?Dishwashers | ENERGY STAR Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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That depends on how you do it.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Let your dog lick the plates clean, rinse and let dry.
by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Yup. And the kitties love to dry them.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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glowby Member Posts: 75 From: Fox River Grove, IL Joined:
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glowby writes:
Then why do you post arguments denying it's real?: Message 15, Message 24, Message 25, Message 27, Message 36, Message 42, Message 49, Message 91. Most of your other comments attempt to cast spurious doubt on the science, like the old denier stand-by, "Scientists get paid, therefore they're dishonest." Message 103 You deny GW is real. marc9000 writes: I don't deny that it's real. Are we to assume that you are now convinced that GW is real?
marc9000 writes:
I suggest that you use facts and evidence to decide whether GW is real, rather than blindly accepting the words of the politicians to whom you're devoted. I also suggest you stop complaining that politics has gotten involved in the issue while at the same time emulating politicians with statements like this...
What suggestions do you have? marc9000 writes:
Seem to be? It has made headlines over and over. Fossil fuel use is the cause of the problem. Of course it's the primary target.
Fossil fuels seem to be the target. marc9000 writes:
Summarized nicely by jar in Message 102 and Message 110, and Pressie in Message 108, and others.
What steps should be taken to cut back their use? ... I'd like to see you list and justify actions to remedy it. marc9000 writes:
The main proposal I've made to you is to stop denying global warming exists. But in your case it involves only politics. Your denial is inspired by your political affiliation which demands that you deny.
Do any of your proposals NOT involve politics? marc9000 writes:
My proposal, if implemented, could be considered effective if you stop denying global warming. It could only be measured by some admission on your part that you're wrong. I don't think this can happen. You're too deeply invested in being "right", politically and personally.
How would we measure your proposals effectiveness? marc9000 writes:
No, best estimates will have to do. We have reasonable estimates of fossil fuels consumed and CO2 generated by industry, transportation, etc, in every developed country, country by country. We can measure the amount of man-made CO2 that ends up in the atmosphere too. It would be irresponsible to delay action because we haven't measured the gas passed from every gnat's ass.
Full and precise accountings will have to be a part of actions to reduce man-made CO2. marc9000 writes:
Of course you don't. You deny that there is any problem. Any solution would seem more problematic. I don't see how dealing with it could possibly cause more problems than it solves. Money spent now will lessen money spent later to deal with the consequences. It's similar to maintaining your home or car or health. You let them go to hell, there's hell to pay later.
I don't see any way of dealing with it that won't cause far more problems than will ever be solved. marc9000 writes:
It can't be. Sure, we can make some choices in personal lifestyle that consume less energy from fossil fuels, but it's not enough. We need an infrastructure that depends very little on these fuels. Individuals can't accomplish this. Plus, there are many individuals, like you, whose politics and peers demand that they deny the problem, and denigrate those who accept it. They can't accept it for fear of being ostracized from their group. So how can the problem be dealt with, without politics being involved? It's a global problem, therefore it's an international problem. Nations have governments. Governments have politics. It's naive and stupid to suppose that governments shouldn't get involved. They are charged with protecting the interests of their citizens and developing infrastructure. This issue demands that they do their jobs.
marc9000 writes:
Every financial meltdown to date has been caused by the bad economic and financial policies of governments and financial institutions. Whatever stresses mitigation programs add to the world's economies will be compensated by minimizing future stresses associated with the consequences of the warming like coastal flooding, and changing or disappearing agricultural areas.
If there is a financial meltdown ... marc9000 writes:
My point is that doing nothing will be more costly in the long run. My point is that "doing something about" or "putting the brakes on" global warming involves actions that ALWAYS have costs. If those actions are based on "estimates of future events" that turn out to be wrong, what assurances do we have that the incorrect estimators will pay those costs? None? Be honest, please. Suppose you cancel your trip to Bermuda at the last minute because the weathermen say there's a 90% chance that a hurricane will hit it, and you re-book a week later at a higher price. The hurricane misses the island. The meteorologists had very good reason to believe it would hit, but it didn't. Would you demand compensation from them? Would you consider your re-booking to have been a bad idea. Projections of future warming could indeed turn out to be very wrong. All it would take is a few truly enormous volcanic eruptions to hit the brakes and put things in reverse ... for a while. If it occurs, it wouldn't mean climatologists were wrong. It would mean that we'd been bought a little more time. And after that time, when the ash has settled, we could have an even worse problem if these volcanoes had generated enough CO2.
marc9000 writes:
... except when doesn't conflict with your ideological extremism. When a new cancer treatment or better weapon technology is developed, you never say, "Oh, those damn godless liberals are at it again!" I also easily see how science is controlled by liberalism and atheism. But guess what? Galileo and Darwin were right, despite the "right" denying it. You can't whine the facts away with global warming either.
marc9000 writes:
Actually the change was about 0.6 C (1 F) over 50 years. ... a temperature increase of 1 DEGREE OVER 50 YEARS!!! HELLO!!!! IS ANYBODY HOME???? ... I know what 1 degree C. is. I know how long 50 years is ... (Message 25) Yes, 2.5 degrees over 50 years. So, what is it you know? Are you talking 50 years US or metric?
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
There's an amusing dissection of Tom Luongo's scam tactics here: It's amusing all right!
quote: .56 degrees as opposed to Luongo's claim of .36???? WOW, what a shocking difference!!!!!!! and;
quote: WHAT A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!! Hahahaha - thanks for the amusement! But I'm more amused at Al Gore's tactics over the years, or by the fact that so many liberals automatically accept it without question; Page not found - The Western Journal The Health Wyze Report - The Health Wyze Report http://www.foxnews.com/...nnel-founder-sue-al-gore-for-fraud
quote: Maybe it's not so amusing after all.
quote: Don't count on it Mr. Coleman, $22 billion a year buys a LOT of scam.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
marc9000 writes: \ Expenditures on global warming studies, by the U.S. and much of the world, is all over the internet. It's a big business. Yeah but if it is real then it makes sense that people are spending money to stop it. I was asking how you know that the people that are saying that the scientists are lying aren't the ones who are lying? I trust the advocates of small government over advocates of big government. I find rich people who advocate small government to be more accountable for their mistakes than rich people who advocate big government. Corruption of course, makes it all less cut and dried than I wish it was, but the general rule still applies IMO. In message 102, jar listed the following as ways to address global warming;
quote: Then when I asked "How will the successes of all these increases in government be measured?" - in message 104, he said this in message 106;
quote: Do you think that is ignorance, or do you think it's lying? Continue to legislate were the most repetitive words in his list. No increases in government? 7 green dots? I love this place!! Edited by marc9000, : Included question
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