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Author Topic:   Immigration -- what's the big deal?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 31 of 43 (750233)
02-12-2015 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jon
02-10-2015 8:25 PM


Re: The Big Deal is that Jon hyperventilates paranoia ... Again
Jon writes:
Pointing out that RAZD lives in a fantasy world where all of his half-cooked ideas solve any problem imaginable.
Interesting...
Jon writes:
That's it? If you want to be a U.S. citizen to make it easier to fly planes into buildings then that should be just fine?
I submit that statements such as the one above don't really require much of a response. They tell us a lot more about you than they do RAZD.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 02-10-2015 8:25 PM Jon has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 43 (750236)
02-12-2015 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
02-12-2015 10:55 AM


Tomahawks.
Uh, yeah, our "barriers" have had significant technological improvements since then.
You think that might have something to do with whether or not they will work?
And who's to say that the new wave of immigrants won't be stronger than us?
Got anyone in mind?
I wish a muthafucka would

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 02-12-2015 10:55 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 02-12-2015 11:41 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 33 of 43 (750239)
02-12-2015 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 11:21 AM


Cat's Eye writes:
Uh, yeah, our "barriers" have had significant technological improvements since then.
You think that might have something to do with whether or not they will work?
I think the Berlin Wall was a failed strategy. Why do you think your higher, stronger Berlin Wall is an improvement?
Cat's Eye writes:
ringo writes:
And who's to say that the new wave of immigrants won't be stronger than us?
Got anyone in mind?
They're already here. There's plenty more where they came from.
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 11:21 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 11:52 AM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 43 (750240)
02-12-2015 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
02-12-2015 11:41 AM


You've totally lost me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 02-12-2015 11:41 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 02-12-2015 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 02-12-2015 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 43 (750241)
02-12-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ringo
02-12-2015 11:06 AM


Well, that's less than I question about you, so I'll take that as a win.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 02-12-2015 11:06 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 02-12-2015 12:04 PM Jon has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 36 of 43 (750243)
02-12-2015 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jon
02-12-2015 11:55 AM


Jon writes:
Well, that's less than I question about you, so I'll take that as a win.
As I've said before, at EvC we set our own winning conditions. Personally, I don't take not knowing something as a win.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 02-12-2015 11:55 AM Jon has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 37 of 43 (750245)
02-12-2015 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 11:52 AM


Cat's Eye writes:
You've totally lost me.
If you can't keep up with me, how do you expect to keep track of the immigrants?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 11:52 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 38 of 43 (750246)
02-12-2015 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 11:52 AM


You've totally lost me.
Immigrants comprise about 13% of the current US population. We're probably not going to send the army after them with either tomahawks or Tomahawk missiles.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 11:52 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 12:24 PM NoNukes has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 39 of 43 (750249)
02-12-2015 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by NoNukes
02-12-2015 12:20 PM


We're probably not going to send the army after them with either tomahawks or Tomahawk missiles.
When was the last time you were a brown guy wandering around southern Arizona without your papers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 02-12-2015 12:20 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by NoNukes, posted 02-12-2015 12:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 43 (750252)
02-12-2015 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 12:24 PM


When was the last time you were a brown guy wandering around southern Arizona without your papers?
How's that working out in Arizona.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 12:24 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 1:22 PM NoNukes has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 41 of 43 (750266)
02-12-2015 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by NoNukes
02-12-2015 12:27 PM


How's that working out in Arizona.
I dunno, I was in Scottsdale a little while ago, it was really nice.
Its kinda funny down there though. You see, there's a whole lot of Mexicans that live by me, two towns down (its where my parents grew up and I've spent a lot of time there, I'm friends with a lot of Mexicans - some of them are the real Vato types), I took four years of Spanish in high-school and I can get by speaking it, but I'm not fluent or anything.
Anyways, I'm down in Arizona working with a customer and we go to a bar and the bartender is hispanic and I can tell by his accent that he's Mexican. So I order my drink in Spanish - and the customer was kinda offended and was all: "Why are you speaking spanish to that guy?" And I'm like, well, he's Mexican, he speaks Spanish and its no big deal. Then he was all: "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't call them Mexicans down here - they're hispanics" He was implying that I was an ignorant hick, or something.
So I call the bartender over and ask him where he's originally from. He tells us that he's from Mexico.
And then I go: "See, he's Mexican." Then I proceed to explain that 'Mexican' is a nationality, not an ethnicity, and I was referring to the guys nation of origin and that it was actually okay for me to speak Spanish to the guy because I was not being offensive. The bartender actually appreciated it.
Anyways, it was a bit of a culture shock for me in that people were so afraid of being politically correct that I couldn't even describe the nation that a guy came from for fear of offending some kind of cultural sensitivity or something.
In the end, it was the guy from Arizona that was the ignorant hick and took offense to something completely innocuous and then tried to correct my behavior on it.
I'm not sure why I'm telling this story, other than it was a weird situation for me that I was reminded of when you mentioned how Arizona was doing.
I guess they're doing okay, but they do seem to be a bit sensitive with the whole Mexican thing going on down there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by NoNukes, posted 02-12-2015 12:27 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 02-13-2015 1:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 43 (750329)
02-13-2015 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by New Cat's Eye
02-12-2015 1:22 PM


NoNukes writes:
How's that working out in Arizona.
Cat Sci writes:
I dunno, I was in Scottsdale a little while ago, it was really nice.
The reason for asking was that when the SC looked at Arizona's immigration laws, they approved this final portion on the basis that it would not devolve into asking 'brown people' to show their papers.
I'm not sure why I'm telling this story, other than it was a weird situation for me that I was reminded of when you mentioned how Arizona was doing.
Not sure what the point is myself. Here in NC, Hispanic people are often called Mexicans in less than polite discussion. On occasion I've asked how they know that the subjects of the conversation are Mexicans, and it turns out that Mexican applies to every brown Hispanic unless you know his nationality. Is that a real good assumption for North Carolina?
Not sure what's wrong with speaking Spanish to an Hispanic anyway. Your customer was an idiot.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-12-2015 1:22 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 02-13-2015 4:00 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 43 of 43 (750336)
02-13-2015 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by NoNukes
02-13-2015 1:06 PM


NoNukes writes:
Not sure what's wrong with speaking Spanish to an Hispanic anyway. Your customer was an idiot.
Mainly, I am following this topic just to get some insight into different ways we could look at tackling immigration in this country, but I thought I would mention something, even though it is an anecdote, that could apply here.
It actually can be offensive to individuals from Mexico to speak to them in Spanish as a white guy, especially with all the Right Wing talking points in this state about "You need to speak English" or "English only in classrooms".
In most situations in AZ, I have never had an issue with speaking Spanish to the guys working with me in restaurants if they were Hispanic and they do often appreciate the attempt, however white man's Spanish it may be, to speak to them in their native tongue. However, a while back I began working at a restaurant and I needed something from one of the cooks, so I asked him for it in Spanish. His response was, "Hey, I speak English, not sure why you would think that I don't". I apologized and explained I was not trying to be offensive and him and I are good, but speaking English is sometimes a way to differentiate themselves from those that refuse to assimilate into the society they are joining. To him, assuming he would want to speak Spanish was placing him with those whom he considered as not wanting to be American more than Mexican.
Now, this is a rare situation and definitely not the norm, so Cat Sci is correct that most times it would be appreciated. But, I can see how people could read offense into it.
Also, in AZ a majority of us refer to "Brown People" as Hispanics until we can clarify where they come from. I agree that calling someone a Mexican is not racist (more a descriptor), but I did once offend someone who was mostly Spanish by referring to him as a Mexican before I got to know him.

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This message is a reply to:
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