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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2119 of 2241 (748983)
02-01-2015 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2107 by Faith
01-31-2015 9:32 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
The problem is, Faith, that you put your worldview ahead of everything, to the point that you engage in frequent misrepresentation. Whether this misrepresentation is intentional lying or simply a strong delusion is hard to tell, but it is undeniable.
quote:
The link I posted to the discussion of Mark got the usual put-downs, including the objection that the writer's defense of the Christian understanding of the Biblical record as the work of the Holy Spirit is just "pride."
In fact I pointed out that the article on Mark denied that the author was an eyewitness, and even that the Gospel was entirely accurate, accepting the words of Papias, as transmitted by Eusebius. I even told Gollfly that i thought that his criticism was unfair.
The pride I referred to was referring to a different arrival altogether, and was about the claim to have a special understanding of the Bible - a claim not backed up in any way by the article itself. I guess that you could respond to that by admitting that the criticisms had some validity.
quote:
But a Spirit-led believer knows things you don't know, it's just a fact.
It's just a lie that you tell yourself, exalting yourself while rejecting the words of the Bible. It is pride and self-worship. Believe it if you must, but bragging about is is no sort of argument - and you'd be a fool to use it as such. The more so since it is easily seen to be false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2107 by Faith, posted 01-31-2015 9:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2122 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:10 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2120 of 2241 (748985)
02-01-2015 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2117 by Faith
01-31-2015 11:38 PM


Re: Flood Bottleneck again
quote:
At the time of the Flood there would have been sufficient genetic variability for even a drastic bottleneck to leave the enormous genetic variability from which all life forms continued to thrive and evolve microevolutionarily from the time of the Flood until now.
You do realise that that doesn't make sense? That even with maximised genetic variation before the flood you would still be limited to 2 alleles per individual at any given locus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2117 by Faith, posted 01-31-2015 11:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2121 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:00 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2123 of 2241 (748989)
02-01-2015 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2121 by Faith
02-01-2015 6:00 AM


Re: Flood Bottleneck again
quote:
Yes of course I realize that. We're talking about LOTS of gene loci, remember, not just what's left over now after most of it has become "junk DNA" so there would most likely be many more loci per trait than we see now
I'm afraid that that is - at absolute best - implausible speculation lacking any positive evidence. Or to put it another way, a desperate excuse for clinging to belief in spite of the evidence.
quote:
And we know there can be many alleles per locus in a population too and yes I know it's not clear how these arise in the Creation model.
More accurately there is no viable explanation for them given the assumptions of YEC. That is why we conclude that the bottleneck did not occur. We have the evidence and you do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2121 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2125 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:32 AM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2124 of 2241 (748990)
02-01-2015 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 2122 by Faith
02-01-2015 6:10 AM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
quote:
I put GOD's worldview ahead of everything else.
Calling your worldview "GOD's" doesn't make it so.
quote:
It's Biblical, PK:
And a clear example of how the Bible is flawed, in that it encourages such bad behaviour. Would you really say that it was intended to give those that twist and misrepresent the Bible an excuse to exalt themselves? And can you see that it does?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2122 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:10 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2126 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:39 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2127 of 2241 (748994)
02-01-2015 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 2126 by Faith
02-01-2015 6:39 AM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
quote:
I don't see it as exalting anybody or feeding anybody's pride, and I'm afraid that's just another way spiritual discernment is needed for a right assessment of biblical revelation.
Of course you can't see it because you are blind to so many things you don't want to see. But claiming to be special and better than normal people is as clear an example of pride as you can get. Except perhaps, for boasting about it and expecting people to believe you. And that's what you're defending.
quote:
Instead of arguing about all this you could consider it might be true and get yourself born again. That way you'd have inside knowledge.
I'd rather try Christianity. And i don't consider that worth my time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2126 by Faith, posted 02-01-2015 6:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2183 of 2241 (749272)
02-03-2015 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2181 by Faith
02-03-2015 1:51 PM


Re: The end of all reason
I can understand why you would hope for the end of reason. Reason is your enemy. One you call "unforgivable" and "evil"/
For instance - while you may not like it - the "best" reasoning for the Trinity isn't that good. The Bible simply isn't clear on the issue.
quote:
Is this just an artifact of the weird situation of the internet where any old self-appointed "expert" can say any old thing he wants
As opposed to only self-appointed experts who say things you like ? Or is it that you claim sole authority to "appoint" experts ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2181 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 1:51 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2185 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 2:46 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2188 of 2241 (749279)
02-03-2015 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2185 by Faith
02-03-2015 2:46 PM


Re: The end of all reason
quote:
I claim the ability to read and understand, and find it very odd that it seems others are having a problem along those lines, although I always start out with the best of hopes for you all.
Unfortunately you are very poor at reading and understanding. That is one of your problems. And claiming "spiritual discernment" to try to pretend you are right is just arrogant boasting.
quote:
Is it really that hard to find common ground on simple questions of fact with unbelievers?
If they were actual demonstrable facts it would not be. If they're not - or worse - obviously untrue - why would you expect agreement ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2185 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 2:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2190 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:04 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2191 of 2241 (749282)
02-03-2015 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2186 by Faith
02-03-2015 2:54 PM


Re: The end of all reason
quote:
Christianity is HISTORY above all, history that is intended to demonstrate the nature of God so that we might believe in Him.
Is it ? You'd think that if that was God's intent we'd find rather better supporting evidence for the Bible in other histories and in archaeology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2186 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 2:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2192 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:10 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2193 of 2241 (749284)
02-03-2015 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2190 by Faith
02-03-2015 3:04 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Narcissism is never an appealing trait, and you carry it to such extremes.
But please stop whining that nobody shares your own ludicrously high opinion of yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2190 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2195 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:14 PM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2194 of 2241 (749286)
02-03-2015 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2192 by Faith
02-03-2015 3:10 PM


Re: The end of all reason
In other words Christianity is a religion of dogma, not history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2192 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2196 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:17 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2198 of 2241 (749291)
02-03-2015 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2196 by Faith
02-03-2015 3:17 PM


Re: The end of all reason
quote:
Dogma is nothing but the collection of facts revealed in the history. Of course it's dogma, but dogma based on historical revelation.
The point is that it is not supportable by evidence and reason. It has to be assumed. Even the idea that it is based on revelation is dogma.
If investigation finds that your "HISTORY" is myth and legend - which you dogmatically believe despite the evidence - then what is the point of the claim that Christianity is a religion of "HISTORY" ? What makes it better than any other religion with myths and legends ?
quote:
WHY DO I BOTHER?
Why DON'T you bother to think things through ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2196 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 3:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2204 of 2241 (749327)
02-03-2015 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2203 by Faith
02-03-2015 5:43 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Faith, are you seriously claiming that Islam and Buddhism teach that everyone will end up in Hell ? Or are you just claiming that they can't keep people out of Hell because they aren't Christianity ? And if neither of those, just what are you saying ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2203 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 5:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2205 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 5:56 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2206 of 2241 (749330)
02-03-2015 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2205 by Faith
02-03-2015 5:56 PM


Re: The end of all reason
In other words your argument is just begging the question. You can't prove that Christianity is better than rival religions by just assuming that it's true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2205 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 5:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2207 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 6:11 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2214 of 2241 (749372)
02-04-2015 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2207 by Faith
02-03-2015 6:11 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
So Christianity is "different" because it's the only religion to offer a "solution" to a "problem it invented. That's not exactly a useful difference if you're trying to claim that Christianity is better than other religions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2207 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 6:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2215 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 1:05 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2216 of 2241 (749377)
02-04-2015 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2215 by Faith
02-04-2015 1:05 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
quote:
Since Christianity didn't invent Hell I assume you'll take your chances that all those other cultures and religions just made up the idea so you needn't bother about the offered solution.
But they DO have solutions to "going to Hell". As you know. You just claim that they don't work. Because of a "problem" that Christianity invented.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2215 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 1:05 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2217 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 5:13 AM PaulK has replied

  
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