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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2172 of 2241 (749197)
02-02-2015 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2171 by NoNukes
02-02-2015 9:12 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Whew! That's a relief.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2181 of 2241 (749266)
02-03-2015 1:51 PM


The end of all reason
So I become a believer and conscientiously spend the next couple of decades learning a lot about what the great minds of my faith taught over the last two millennia, the faith that built western civilization though that is now denied along with all the rest of it. My effort includes a lot of study of the various false religions and cults that try to imitate Christianity, along with sermon after sermon and book after book that bring the whole thing together into a magnificent revelation of spiritual things nobody could ever imagine on their own.
But it was all for naught. Now upstarts come along and call my belief a cult of all things, anything in the Bible that is even held by all believers is just "made up" and all the best reasoning anyone could give for something like the Trinity is also dismissed as invented, no matter that it has pages and pages of Biblical sources for it which I've linked in other threads.
Is this just an artifact of the weird situation of the internet where any old self-appointed "expert" can say any old thing he wants, or is this just another sign that the world is being engulfed in a chaos that's going to take us all down to The End?
Wait and see I guess.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2183 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 2:39 PM Faith has replied
 Message 2184 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 2:44 PM Faith has replied
 Message 2228 by Stile, posted 02-04-2015 9:05 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2185 of 2241 (749275)
02-03-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2183 by PaulK
02-03-2015 2:39 PM


Re: The end of all reason
I claim the ability to read and understand, and find it very odd that it seems others are having a problem along those lines, although I always start out with the best of hopes for you all. I can only conclude that "these things are spiritually discerned" although that gets me accused of being arrogant,. Is it really that hard to find common ground on simple questions of fact with unbelievers? I guess it is. Oh well.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 2187 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 2:58 PM Faith has replied
 Message 2188 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 3:00 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2186 of 2241 (749276)
02-03-2015 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2184 by Golffly
02-03-2015 2:44 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Buddha, Hindu, Muslim are based on millennia too. By your own admission, that must be wasted study. Why would you possibly think you'd be different when you don't have any different evidence. You have the same evidence.. unfortunately it's amounted to none.
You don't understand any of this I'm afraid. I read a lot of Buddhism and Hinduism on my way to Christianity and there is NO comparison. WHATEVER. Christianity is HISTORY above all, history that is intended to demonstrate the nature of God so that we might believe in Him.
The others are DOCTRINES and Buddhism doesn't even acknowledge God. Even Islam which is a ridiculous rip-off of Biblical religion is mostly a bunch of doctrines, like "Kill Jews" and that sort of inspiring bit of dogma.
But you believe what you believe and facts aren't going to change your mind.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 2191 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 3:07 PM Faith has replied
 Message 2197 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 3:18 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2189 of 2241 (749280)
02-03-2015 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2187 by Golffly
02-03-2015 2:58 PM


Re: The end of all reason
You are making untenable equations between religions that aren't true in actuality because you don't think things through. Satan is very clever and knows how to imitate God's truth enough to fool people who have no common sense or spiritual discernment, but that possibility doesn't even exist in your worldview so what's the point of discussing any of this with you?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2190 of 2241 (749281)
02-03-2015 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2188 by PaulK
02-03-2015 3:00 PM


Re: The end of all reason
See post above.

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 Message 2188 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 3:00 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2193 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 3:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2192 of 2241 (749283)
02-03-2015 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2191 by PaulK
02-03-2015 3:07 PM


Re: The end of all reason
I refer you to Pascal who said the Bible gives enough light for believers but keeps the insincere in darkness, as they prefer. He isn't in the business of convincing people who won't make the effort to do it His way.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2195 of 2241 (749287)
02-03-2015 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2193 by PaulK
02-03-2015 3:11 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Narcissism, arrogance, oh well. Beam me up, Lord, soon please.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2196 of 2241 (749288)
02-03-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2194 by PaulK
02-03-2015 3:12 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Sigh. Dogma is nothing but the collection of facts revealed in the history. Of course it's dogma, but dogma based on historical revelation.
WHY DO I BOTHER?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2199 of 2241 (749292)
02-03-2015 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2197 by Golffly
02-03-2015 3:18 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Why is your religion better? ...
You are stuck on a uniqueness and specialness which every religion says with as much enthusiasm as you do.
Unique, simply isn't. It's more of the same. You are the same as other religions.
Christ died for our sins, so we don't have to go to Hell. Islam and Hinduism and Judaism and Mormonism and Buddhism will all take you straight to Hell because they have no solution to the problem of sin.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : decided to eliminate the irrelevant stuff
Edited by Faith, : a bit of mop-up

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2201 of 2241 (749307)
02-03-2015 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2200 by Golffly
02-03-2015 4:11 PM


Re: The end of all reason
Well if you're going to eliminate Christ's salvation and reduce Christianity to the level of all the other religions, you're right, it's all the same thing and we're all going to Hell together. Fortunately you're wrong.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2203 of 2241 (749325)
02-03-2015 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2202 by Golffly
02-03-2015 4:29 PM


Re: The end of all reason
I DID post something a while back Message 1808 that shows that Christianity did not make up Hell, that there are versions of Hell in just about every ancient culture and religion.
They just don't have a way to keep sinners out of Hell. Christianity does.
Edited by Faith, : add message link

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2205 of 2241 (749328)
02-03-2015 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2204 by PaulK
02-03-2015 5:47 PM


Re: The end of all reason
I'm saying they all have a concept of Hell which is a place for the wicked in the afterlife. No, they don't think everybody is going there because they have no appreciation of the Fall and the depths of human sin. They think you can stay out of Hell by being "good" but the Bible makes it clear that nobody is good enough to stay out of Hell (though it does indicate that there are degrees of Hell so not everybody would be down at the bottom level with the Really Bad Guys, whoever they are, we probably don't have a good idea of that). Islam actually thinks suicide bombers are going to their version of heaven or Paradise, maybe the craziest deception anybody ever dreamed up. They think it's good to lie for their faith too. So if you believe that, you can go to their "heaven" with them.
Meanwhile the Bible gives us the Law, nicely condensed in the Ten Commandments, so that we can know that any violation of same, from lying to adultery to covetousness to stealing to dishonoring parents, earns us a place in Hell. Which is where we'd all go if Jesus hadn't come to save us from it, as promised all through the Old Testament.
But of course if you've so destroyed the integrity of the Bible that none of this survives you're up a creek with all the others.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 2206 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 6:06 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2207 of 2241 (749333)
02-03-2015 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2206 by PaulK
02-03-2015 6:06 PM


Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
I didn't claim to prove anything, I merely answered the charge that it's the same as all the other religions by showing that it offers us salvation from sin through Christ's death. You can of course ignore it or disbelieve it or whatever.
Buddhist Hell kind of looks like fun with all those mean blue beings chasing everybody around with pointy things and doing unmentionable things to their poor bodies. Priobably where Hieronymus Bosch got his inspiration.
Or you could just take your chances that all ancient cultures were wrong and there is no such place and go on whistling in the dark. Bon chance!
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2206 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 6:06 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2208 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 8:44 PM Faith has replied
 Message 2214 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 12:57 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2209 of 2241 (749358)
02-03-2015 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2208 by Golffly
02-03-2015 8:44 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Orthodox traditional Christianity offers salvation from sin and Hell through the death of the incarnate God in our place, and if you want I can find the necessary Bible support, but I'm sure you couldn't care less. In any case no other religion offers salvation from sin and Hell; you're on your own trying to be "good" enough to avoid Hell.
But in particular I'd suggest that you avoid such definitions of goodness as suicide bombing and beheading infidels or putting them on the rack or in the iron maiden. But that's just me, if it seems right to you who am I to criticize it?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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