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Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Sounds like you've never experienced the spiritual revelation of the truth and been, "born again" of the Holy Spirit, then. Perhaps that time is overdue then, to make that decision, rather than stay ignorant about the truth? Out of interest, have you ever experienced any of the spiritual claims made in the New Testament? Have you ever spoke in tongues, or had the presence of God fall upon you, or had amazingly answered prayers? Have you ever felt the peace of His presence? Has He ever made known to you His will for your life, and have you watched Him work it out? Yes, I have had amazing spiritual experiences. One thing I always wonder though: How do you know that it isn't the devil tricking you? Like, speaking in tongues. I've seen it, I've heard it: Its bullshit. Why should I not believe that the people who speak in tongues are either deluding themselves or being tricked by the devil?
For all purposes, you are basically saying this to me, "mike, come on man, we all know atheism is true, and materialist philosophy, this God-business is just a bit of fluff in my head". lol - what was all that you were saying about the writer knowing the pragmatics of their statements and how others shouldn't equivocate them? I'm not an atheist and I don't think this God-business is just a bit of fluff in your head. Well, the stuff about knowing the truth, sure, that's self-delusion, but not all of it.
Then don't pretend to not be an atheist, is my recommendation. But I'm not an atheist. And who would I be praying to?
Claim head-theism, Why would I claim something that you made up?
based on human reasoning, Human reasoning is the only reasoning I am capable of.
and admit you live according to human reason/wisdom, not God's wisdom, I do both.
and you put secular science before God. Before? Nah, they're tangential. Science alludes God's creation.
Besides, it's a false dichotomy anyway, "Is the bible the inerrant word of God or words of men". It can actually be BOTH, if God knows how to move men to do what He wants, to achieve His will. He surely can. Anyone who knows Him, like I do - knows this about Him. But obviously the words of ignorance are easy to spot, for someone who genuinely believes. Well this is what the actual topic is... As I said, I suppose that the Bible is the word of God but it is hard to tell. I have no evidence that it is. You seem to be saying that you do know it is the word of God and you know this by some kind of "magic", or something. Is that all, then? Or do you have any evidence?
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9
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mike the wiz writes: Sounds like you've never experienced the spiritual revelation of the truth and been, "born again" of the Holy Spirit, then. But then you make the leap from there right to an inerrant Bible. There is no reason to do that.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Then don't pretend to not be an atheist Ya know, that's actually kind of insulting. You have a tacit assumption in there that if I don't follow your particular brand of Christianity, then I don't believe in a God at all. That's hubris, Mike. Don't be a jerk.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Your argument is this: "No, I haven't experienced it, but I saw or heard something I would call B.S." Perhaps you heard, "babble" - how then can you know you saw or heard it?
What does that have to do with anything - am I supposed to rewind the videotape in your mind, to know what was, the "bullshit" you heard? Am I going to call the genuine article, "B.S." Look, if you are born-again, great. I was asking in order to get an idea if you know God. You don't talk like you do, which is just an impression I get, but sure - I can be wrong, I have to "go on something" though don't I?
I'm not an atheist and I don't think this God-business is just a bit of fluff in your head. But if the Holy Spirit is real, and I really have spoke in tongues, then you have just called something to do with the Holy Spirit, "bullshit" if it really is genuine. That would concern me greatly if I had done that - because for me I would fear saying something false about God. You see, it's strange that your posts are so belligerent towards me as a fellow-believers.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Your argument is this: "No, I haven't experienced it, lol - what was all that you were saying about the writer knowing the pragmatics of their statements and how others shouldn't equivocate them? Where did I say that I have not experienced it? I said that I have experienced it. You are very bad a paraphrasing other's arguments.
but I saw or heard something I would call B.S." Perhaps you heard, "babble" - how then can you know you saw or heard it? The people who were doing it were just as convinced as you are that they were being moved by the Holy Spirit. Yet it was clearly bullshit. And if I saw you speaking in tongues, I'd probably call bullshit on that too.
I was asking in order to get an idea if you know God. People who think that they "know God" are deluding themselves or being tricked by the devil. Seriously, how could you tell the difference? Now, I'll grant that God would have the power to do that. But that's just the "magic" defence. How could you really know?
You don't talk like you do, which is just an impression I get, but sure - I can be wrong, I have to "go on something" though don't I?But if the Holy Spirit is real, and I really have spoke in tongues, then you have just called something to do with the Holy Spirit, "bullshit" if it really is genuine. That would concern me greatly if I had done that - because for me I would fear saying something false about God. It is incredibly easy to self-delude yourself. I mean, I could have came back here and replied: Mike! Last night I prayed to God about this and he answered. He explained how you were right and the Holy Spirit really did make you speak in tongues. I was so moved that I was born-again and am now an evangelical Christian. Praise the Lord! Thank you Mike! Hooray! If you believed me, you would probably get excited by that. And then we could feed off each others emotions and get all kinds of warm and fuzzy as we share our experiences in knowing God. You'd be convinced that you saved another soul, and you'd have that much more evidence for the fact that you know God. And yet, it would all be bullshit. Incredibly easy. But bullshit nonetheless.
You see, it's strange that your posts are so belligerent towards me as a fellow-believers. You reap what you sow. Anyways, do you have anything to say about the topic? How do you know that the Bible is the inerrant word of God? Do you have any reason at all that couldn't be referred to as "magic"? For example: "I know God and he told me so" counts as magic. So what do you got?
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9
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mike the wiz writes: Sounds like you've never experienced the spiritual revelation of the truth and been, "born again" of the Holy Spirit, then. Perhaps that time is overdue then, to make that decision, rather than stay ignorant about the truth? Out of interest, have you ever experienced any of the spiritual claims made in the New Testament? Have you ever spoke in tongues, or had the presence of God fall upon you, or had amazingly answered prayers? Have you ever felt the peace of His presence? Has He ever made known to you His will for your life, and have you watched Him work it out? Sounds like you're basically a head-theism. I am guessing because of Catholic upbringing. I was never born again when I was a Catholic, nor did I get anything from it. Very few genuinely are born-again in reality, as can be seen by their many strange religious, man-made beliefs, POST-bible, "factoids" This post represents the true picture of fundamentalism. Just read through it yourself mike. It is all about YOU - YOUR peace- YOUR great experiences of God - YOUR answered prayer etc. YOU rejected Catholicism because YOU didn't get anything out of it. It is all about YOU believing the right things so that YOU can get God to do what YOU want Him to. It is the same thing that Jesus rejected in His own people. They had been trying to get God to do what they wanted Him to do by legalistically following a set of laws. You are doing exactly the same thing except that instead of the circumcision, sabbath laws, food laws etc you have your faith and belief laws. You have essentially turned faith into a work and it has again become works righteousness. Yes, I believe that God hopes we'll be born again but I question if someone thinks that being born again is simply so that they get to live forever and have great spiritual experiences. Read the Bible. The idea is that we are called to be born again so that out hearts are made less about us and more about others and all of creation for that matter. It is about a changed heart so that we are better equipped to humbly take God's love, peace, forgiveness, justice etc to the world. We are born again for a purpose and that purpose is not so that we get God on our side it is so that we are on side with Him so that we can serve His creation. Remember, Jesus was a servant King washing the disciples feet. We are called to be a servant people loving our neighbour by serving His creation. The brand of Christianity that you and Faith appear to espouse is much closer to what the Pharisees taught than what Jesus taught, and as I repeat ad nauseum is that it is Biblianity and not Christianity or at least not the Christianity that Jesus taught and lived.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
deleted: forgot I'd left this thread.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9
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The Westminster Catechism says that the chief end of man is that we glorify God and enjoy Him forever.
How do we glorify Him. Do we do it by singing praises in church, (which I agree is a good thing but only a small part of worship), or do we much more fully worship Him by serving Him in our reflection of His love and care to creation. The worship in church is a means to an end as it facilitates us serving Him in community. I know that you aren't keen on using human reasoning to understand the nature of God but I ask you, which do you believe to be the truest form of worship? 1/ Singing praises in church.2/ Attending a Bible study. 3/ Volunteering in a homeless shelter. A hint would be in Matthew 25 where it talks about the least of His children. Yes, we are meant to enjoy Him forever. See Psalm 37.
quote: The point being if that you trust God then His ways of love become your ways then that is where you will find your joy and truly enjoy Him forever. Paul says this in Corinthians 1 Corinthians 4:5
quote: It is all about the motives of our hearts not our theology and it isn't our business about who winds up where, (whatever where means in this instance), in the next life. Personally I'll leave the judging to God. Edited by GDR, : typo Edited by GDR, : No reason given.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
deleted: forgot again.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2893 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
This all appears to be pretty far afield from the actual topic.
It seems to me if we are discussing catechisms and true forms of worship we are no longer discussing the merits of whether the Bible is the inerrant word of God. But what do I know? I am not a moderator.
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tsig Member (Idle past 2909 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Man took from the tree. Now to "get back", He wants the heart. He wants us to, by freewill, humble ourselves and say, "okay, I was wrong, SHOW ME." Been there, did that, all I got was crickets.
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tsig Member (Idle past 2909 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
But Percy will answer that other religions say the same thing. You know, I don't think they do but I can't prove that either. I'd say that dying for your religion rather proves your sincerity
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tsig Member (Idle past 2909 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined:
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Think about it? who claims to have made the earth, made man on it, formed the eye, planted the ear, see the heart of man, have omniscience, omnipotence, transcendance, immutability and sovereignty, and "be love" itself? All of these claims SATISFY those who seek God. So I can't see how any comparison can be drawn. Quite simply, if God isn't the God of the bible, then He has made it overwhelmingly look like he is, to the world, which would make no sense. also it's the only book that explains our sin-nature, and tells us why the world is the way it is, and the only book to claim we are unique to the animals, as our consciousness clearly is, that we are made in God's image. These things are not comparable to the shallow god-of-thunder, "Thor", who gives no answers to anything. Yet Dawkins would compare our God to Thor?!? Lol! Thor has a hammer, Jesus got nailed. Winner, Thor!!
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tsig Member (Idle past 2909 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
I can show you the water. Its your choice whether to drink it or not. Denying that your thirst will be quenched is of course your decision I thought god had something to do with it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
tsig writes:
It may indicate that you sincerely believe in your religion; it does not in any way indicate that there's any truth to it.
I'd say that dying for your religion rather proves your sincerity
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