Homosexuality an answer to overpopulation?

I began this as a reply to holmes post #40 in the thread "Saddam Captured? (part 2)." After I meandered enough, I decided that perhaps it should have it's own topic, and here we are... While I won't presume to speak for our friend, I would wager that he only meant to imply that if the population growth trend continues at is current pace, more people will die and at a greater rate for whatever reasons -- be they epidemic, plague, starvation, war, etc...Personally, I think there are more peaceful ways to counter the population growth trend such as willful reduction in birthrates. I even have a personal theory that the increase in homosexuality among the human population is a natural reaction to the overpopulation of the planet. In other words, the species is producing more individuals who are less likely to actually produce their own offspring thereby decelerating the population growth.That's not meant to devalue or dismiss the earnestness of a given homosexual's own feelings. I'm not purporting that individuals themselves make a conscious choice to be homosexual because of some reactionary agenda. I'm saying that I think it could be sort of biologically imparted upon them as a consequence of certain environmental imbalances in the biosphere.On a psychological level in fact, an increase in homosexuality also represents to me a deterioration (in a good way!) of our stereotypes with regard to love between individuals. In a way, the growing homosexual community could also be helping the rest of us understand that deeper love is quite acceptible and prosperous between members of the same sex. Such a shift in the paradigm of love could even spill over into a deeper appreciation for ALL walks of life, and hopefully it could help the species to live more in harmony with its environment and less at the expense of it.What do any of you think of this idea? Am I way off base? I'll admit, my entire perception of "the growing homosexual population" is basically derived from the generally increasing public awareness of the community and its greater visibility in popular media. It may be that the homosexual population has historically been relatively constant in proportion to the heterosexuals. If that is so, can someone supply me with some statistical references?Maybe if my idea is not so much an accurate description of recent history, it could instead be a reasonable prediction of the near future? Or maybe my grandiose ideals have simply gotten the better of me... I dunno. Thoughts?

Since this began as a reply to me I figure I should probably reply in some way, though I don't really have knowledge regarding trends in homosexuality.To start with (and as a side note) M8's comment, when joined with what he had said in his previous posts, seemed to imply that he was willing to kill because of the overpopulation problem. He never seemed to have a true environmentalist agenda, but if so I'd be curious if he'd be willing to join the Rainbow Army to stave off impending doom. The weapons are more fun to play with (IMO) and they don't tend to kill anyone when they go off.As far as your theory goes, I am sceptical. Bonobos and dolphins exhibit a wide array of sexualities without environmental pressures requiring their need to reproduce less.I am also uncertain that humans are actually in a position to be feeling the environmental pressure we can only assess right now using statistics. I guess homosexuality seems greater (or at least more noticeable) in cities where crowding is greater, but that might have a totally different explanation.If your theory was correct then homosexuality in India, Japan, and Hong Kong would have to be expected to be higher than elsewhere. Hong Kong maybe, but the other two I kind of doubt.I'm all for expanding sexual diversity... both in toleration and in practice. But I have a hard time seeing it having an environmental component. Close living may increase opportunities, but I might also argue the solitude of forests offers the same number of opportunities given less prying eyes around. After all, boy scout camping trips are places many boys get their first merit badges in homoerotica, and its not like there isn't plenty of room there.I'd be interested in seeing what other people think.------------------
holmes

My partner and I plan to have one child; although, yes, that would be a negative population growth from us, just not zero population growth.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Who is going to have the child? Was that a tough decision? And how are you going about getting a donor?(just to stay on topic I might add to :ae: to notice where rei is from. I don't think environmental pressures of overcrowding have hit Iowa yet.)------------------
holmes[This message has been edited by holmes, 12-17-2003]

Holmes, great reply. Thanks for your comments. Let me address a few specifically That may be. I did not read over your exchange with him very thoroughly. I really just used your inquiry to him as a launching pad for presenting my own ideas on the matter. ROTFLOL!!! Yes, your skepticism is warranted. I am hard-pressed for any specific environmental cause(s) and for that reason could instead only generally point to overpopulation as a source of environmental stress. Since homosexuality on a large scale has a general effect of depopulating a species, I sought a correlation bewteen growing homosexuality and population.You also mention that population density seems correlated to homosexual populaton proportions, and I seem to recall studies with lab animals that also supported that idea. Still, as you go on to say, there are counterexample populations around the globe that don't exhibit this correlation. Yeah... I suppose my theory is sort of built on a "Gay-of-the-gaps" conjecture that sees a correlation that isn't really there -- or at the very least, it isn't strongly supported by any real data yet. Well, my ideas sort of envisioned the emergence of the so-called "gay gene" in the genome as a result of the environmental pressures, which would in turn predispose certain individuals to homosexuality from birth. I didn't mean it to imply that any given individual who happens to be out in the middle of nowhere suddenly will have an increased appetite for the opposite sex.Thanks again for your comments.

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Who is going to have the child? Was that a tough decision? And how are you going about getting a donor?

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1) Elaine is.
2) Not really - she wanted to more than me
3) Haven't decided on that one yet - it's a several years down the road. We want to make sure that we have a solid financial footing first. We just bought our first house recently (just finished unpacking two days ago!), and it'd be nice to have some equity in it that we can draw from in case of hard times; to start a college savings account; etc.

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(just to stay on topic I might add to :ae: to notice where rei is from. I don't think environmental pressures of overcrowding have hit Iowa yet.)

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Hey, let me tell you, Iowa City is "San Francisco On The Plains" Ok, not that extreme, but still, we have our share of the GLBT community out here - and land is plentiful in Iowa. Of course, in the city itself, land is actually pretty expensive, so if the key factor was "overcrowding in your immediate surroundings", it could be a possibility.Of course, I was born in California and grew up in Texas, and my partner is from Indiana, so I guess discussion of Iowa is rather moot concerning us ------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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Yeah... I suppose my theory is sort of built on a "Gay-of-the-gaps" conjecture that sees a correlation that isn't really there

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Congratulations - a quick search on google indicates that you're the first person to publish the "Gay of the gaps" theory. Remember this when you're fighting over the book deal on the subject with another contender

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or at the very least, it isn't strongly supported by any real data yet.

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True. However, we already know that gays prevent tornados.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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"Gay-of-the-gaps"

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Are there any other kind? Seriously though, it is going to take a long time for me to get that phrase out of my head. It'd make a great porn title.------------------
holmes

Have you been to Chicago's "Boy's Town"? I tells ya it makes me wish I were totally gay. Knowing how much fun I could be having while living in a cool looking neighborhood drives me crazy. But the rents are higher.------------------
holmes

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(just to stay on topic I might add to :ae: to notice where rei is from. I don't think environmental pressures of overcrowding have hit Iowa yet.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So, any creationists/alarmists have opinions to render regarding potential genome damage posed by genetically engineered corn being grown around Iowa City?

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Have you been to Chicago's "Boy's Town"? I tells ya it makes me wish I were totally gay. Knowing how much fun I could be having while living in a cool looking neighborhood drives me crazy. But the rents are higher.

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Never been there... most of my experience with Chicago has just been the airport and everything you have to drive past to get away from there (you can go pretty much anywhere from the Eastern Iowa Aiport, which is 20 minutes away, but it's much cheaper to drive to O'Hare). I'm pretty happy with how open and accepting Iowa City (and the Cedar Rapids) have been, though. There's some nice clubs (like the Alley Cat in Cedar), very GLBT-friendly regulations on everything from housing to employment discrimination (largely thanks to someone I know who's a former city councillor) (we're one of only a handful of moderate to large cities in the US to have an anti-transgender-discrimination ordinance), and a very accepting culture in general (in fact, the only "comments" we've gotten from strangers were when Elaine and I were holding hands as we went into a drug store, and another lesbian couple that we passed commented on how cute we looked together... back in Terre Haute (Indiana), I would have been scared to hold her hand in public)You know... I've gotten waaaay off topic here ------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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So, any creationists/alarmists have opinions to render regarding potential genome damage posed by genetically engineered corn being grown around Iowa City?

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No. . . Corn. Good. . . Monsanto. Good. . . Regulations. Bad. . . Must. Go. Buy. Corn. Now. . .------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

:: writes:

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the increase in homosexuality among the human population

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Um, evidence? All studies I have seen have indicated that the level of homosexuality has remained fairly constant for as long as we have reliable data. It tends to be somewhere around 7-10%. Alas, I don't have a reference for that...I'm merely remembering the various spates of reports from Kinsey to the Guttmacher Institute and the various commentary that surrounded them.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

hmm, well being one of the resident lurker's here.. I thought i'd de-cloak (Ka-plock Toa! sorry too much star trek ) and ask this in regards to: If homosexuality is say...some, genetic alteration, due to overpopulation pressures, would we necessarily see it everywhere there is overpopulation? Just because some mutation has allowed one group to adapt doesn't necessarily mean another will have that same or even a similar mutation?Also, though now thinking about it my question is probably wrong, I would think that some reporting countries might alter their data about homosexual populations due to some stigma, or even hide the data? (ie. China might very likely be misreporting the number of homosexuals in its populations?)

Yeah, I was still open to that information. I said:

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I'll admit, my entire perception of "the growing homosexual population" is basically derived from the generally increasing public awareness of the community and its greater visibility in popular media. It may be that the homosexual population has historically been relatively constant in proportion to the heterosexuals.

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I'd be interested to see some actual statistics that can give us a real idea about whether or not there is a real trend either way.