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Author | Topic: Claims of God Being Omnipotent in the Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MFFJM2 Member (Idle past 3466 days) Posts: 58 From: Washington, DC Joined: |
quote: No, I denigrated uncorroborated and unverified eyewitness testimony, and the reason for that should be obvious. Also, eyewitness corroboration of letters and paintings/sculptures made at the time are a means of verification, and not held as the primary evidence.
quote: The inclusion of Jesus was another analogy, in this case to show the unreliability of "eyewitness" accounts that are unverified. However, djufo claimed he had evidence that Sumerian cuneiform supported Biblical events, and I am still awaiting that evidence. The attempt by djufo is not the first attempt to use the Epic of Gilgamesh as evidence for a worldwide Flood, and it has always been refuted by historians, as well as the sciences of archaeology, geology, biology, botany, hydrology. Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So God is a failure as a leader? He's a General who orders his troops over the top and only a handful of them go? Even human leaders are more inspiring than that.
God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel, but He never made him rebel. A leader may suspect that most of the people in his step study class wont listen to him, but he is charged to try and do his best anyway.
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Human leaders inspire humans to do human things, like fighting for the freedom of capitalist exploitation so that their kids can inherit the family business.
Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it. He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training. He is a good leader, however, in that He took the bullet for everyone in the class...even the dropouts who chose not to hang. I hardly call that autocratic. You people seem to assume that there is a better outfit to become involved with...one that has no leaders, mass consensus, and individual liberty rather than groupthink. We are living in times like that now. Time will tell which philosophy is the better one.
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You're beginning to sound like me.
Human leaders inspire humans to do human things, like fighting for the freedom of capitalist exploitation so that their kids can inherit the family business. Phat writes:
That's just it though. The ones who choose not to go over the top get shot for cowardice. That isn't a free choice.
Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it. He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training. Phat writes:
It's funny how Christians (American Christians anyway) espouse individualism here on earth but reject it for eternity.
You people seem to assume that there is a better outfit to become involved with...one that has no leaders, mass consensus, and individual liberty rather than groupthink. Phat writes:
I'm not convinced you can separate omnipotence from autocracy.
I hardly call that autocratic.
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I can imagine the conversation now....
GODs Chosen General: We wage war not against flesh & blood but against principalities,powers, and wickedness in high places! We have met the enemy and he is us! Private Ringo Excuse me, but can i see some I.D.? I'm not convinced that i'm fighting the right foes here. All of the gods I've ever known failed to live up to their press release...and who am I listening to, anyway? Satans army has better food and free beer! Who are we to judge them as the enemy?
General Ringo, why must you always be so contrarian? Can't you just listen to me? I AM knocking at the door of your conscience. Ringo Looks to me like you have your servant Phat writing this script and I know he is not fully inspired to write it. I'm sorry, General...I and my critically thinking friends have far to many questions to join this outfit! Humans have discovered far too many contradictions and inconsistencies in the stories we have about your God! Religion is for the birds!
General Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Now fight the good fight, private and you will inherit eternal life! Ringo So if the birds don't sow nor reap and yet get fed, why are your representatives always asking for my money? Frankly I'd rather give my spare change to the vagrants in the park. Those men are real,down to earth types...no religious facade there!
General I don't want your money! I want your heart and soul! Ringo No can do. I don't know enough about you or your army to sign up... So what can Gods General do? Will Ringo end up in hell for rejecting that which he doesn't trust nor know enough about? Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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jar Member (Idle past 98 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it. Chapter and verse please.
He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training. Chapter and verse please.
He is a good leader, however, in that He took the bullet for everyone in the class...even the dropouts who chose not to hang. I hardly call that autocratic. You people seem to assume that there is a better outfit to become involved with...one that has no leaders, mass consensus, and individual liberty rather than groupthink. We are living in times like that now. Time will tell which philosophy is the better one. Chapter and verse please. Remember it must be verses where Jesus says, not John.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Phat writes:
Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it.jar writes: I suppose the keyword here is "under His charge". This would mean the Disciples, right? Chapter and verse please.Matt 4:18-22 writes: So far it appears that the action of following Jesus is quite voluntary. Im attempting to prove that Jesus never makes anyone do anything. Lets continue... - As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." 20At once they left their nets and followed him. 21 Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.Matt 9:35-38 writes: Well...I suppose Jesus urges His followers to encourage each other to deny themselves and go and do...but I'm still unconvinced He is making us do anything! Lets continue... Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38 Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field." Matt 16:24-25 writes: He makes it clear that it will be their decision to deny themselves and follow Him. --Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. hmmmm...the more I read the more I see no support for my statement. Im not giving up yet, though I can empathize with the Disciples, however. After all, what do they get out of the deal??
Matt 19:27-30 writes: Evidently Jesus promises eternal life. So far, I cant prove where He told anyone it is ok to opt out.
27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?" 28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. all I can say is echoing this scripture.On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" Im not convinced that one has to deny themselves. Shouldnt such an act be voluntary?
Phat writes: He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training. jar writes: OK I have one for this: Chapter and verse please.Matthew 7:13 writes: "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Have you forgotten who created those principalities and powers? God is on both sides, just ike He was in World War One. "We wage war not against flesh & blood but against principalities,powers, and wickedness in high places!" Maybe He's only in it for the carnage. He ought to know as well as we do that in war nobody wins.
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
God is on both sides, just like He was in World War One. I think you have Him confused with The Rothschilds!
Maybe He's only in it for the carnage. He ought to know as well as we do that in war nobody wins. The only way to allow free will was to allow a war (spiritually) otherwise he would have created perfect creatures with no ability to rebel and no opportunity to learn.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Read your history. Gott mit uns.
ringo writes:
I think you have Him confused with The Rothschilds! God is on both sides, just like He was in World War One. Phat writes:
There's no such thing as "free will" - not when the only "choices" are slavery or torture.
The only way to allow free will was to allow a war (spiritually)... Phat writes:
Why do you conflate learning with rebellion?
... otherwise he would have created perfect creatures with no ability to rebel and no opportunity to learn.
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
ringo writes: I have noticed a pattern--in general--between believers and nonbelievers. Believers by and large want an authority in their lives and/or believe that they need one. Unbelievers seem to by and large think that autonomy is life's greatest gift. There's no such thing as "free will" - not when the only "choices" are slavery or torture.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
Phat writes: I have noticed a pattern--in general--between believers and nonbelievers. Believers by and large want an authority in their lives and/or believe that they need one. Unbelievers seem to by and large think that autonomy is life's greatest gift. No Phat, you're extending your own beliefs to non-believers, thinking that they must be equal and opposite. Good and evil and all that. God and the devil. Binary. Silly. Non-believers just get on with it. The majority don't worry about such stuff, it's all just life and we try to make the best of it. It's just nothing that ordinary people think about. It's just....normal and real, like traffic jams and bills. Autonomy isn't life's greatest gift, life is life's greatest gift.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
you messed up my pattern, but I sense you have an honest answer. I will incorporate that into my database.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
Phat writes: I will incorporate that into my database. Hmmm. I sense you still don't get it. Because atheism - and I'd say a agnosticism too - is an absence of belief, it has no analogue with the way a believer thinks and behaves. The way you think about the world and go about your physical life with its churches, meetings, prayer groups, sing-songs, bible readings, evangelisms, aphorisms before dining, God bless America etc etc has no equal with 'us'. When you try to imagine how it is for us, you get it wrong by thinking it's somehow the opposite of the way it is for you, or that we give the same amount of time and effort to being atheist/agnostic as you do to being a believer. Well we don't - it's just an absence. There's no church, no prayer, no thought process no congregation; nothing to reinforce our non-belief on a daily or hourly basis; there's just life. Very, very few of us atheist/agnostics spend our time talking and thinking about this stuff - these boards are an aberration. In a day to day existence being atheist is as interesting as not having sugar in your tea. I think too, that your views are tempered by being in such a strange society, a while back in the USA I got asked in a matter of fact way what church I attended. That's not a question I've ever been asked before in my life. In Northern European countries the assumption is that you're a nice liberal agnostic/atheist.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1703 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I think too, that your views are tempered by being in such a strange society, a while back in the USA I got asked in a matter of fact way what church I attended. That's not a question I've ever been asked before in my life. In Northern European countries the assumption is that you're a nice liberal agnostic/atheist. Nobody ever asked me that either when I was an atheist. Were you perhaps in a Southern state, somewhere in the "Bible belt."?
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