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Author Topic:   Big Bang Found
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 301 (724906)
04-22-2014 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by kbertsche
04-19-2014 9:47 PM


Re: Causation and nuclear decay
But as should be obvious to anyone with scientific training, most physical processes are not immediate, but have short, finite (and probabilistic) timing.
So if we disagree with you we are untrained? Not a persuasive argument. Nor is simply calling a statement obvious even without the gratuitous slam.
And your statement is incorrect. Most physical processes are immediate in the sense we are denying is the case for quantum processes. For macroscopic processes on systems, the delays that we might notice are periods when the states of systems are still changing as a direct result of the initial, and prior cause. That is, there is a complete trail between an action and an immediate consequence. When a wake up alarm clock goes off, it is not that there is no connection between the setting of the alarm and the sounding of the alarm. Instead there are a chain of state changes within the timer that connect the final sounding to the setting of the alarm. A counter changes state under impetus of a clock and counts down the time to alarming. The clock is driven by an oscillator that generates a waveform with voltage thresholds that change the clock state. So we can say that final alarming does have a cause in the sense you are claiming we cannot say such a thing.
Not so for nuclear decay. You and I seem to agree that there is no link of changed states between the creation of nuclei and the emitting of a particle therefrom. Instead the atom seems to be unchained immediately prior to emitting the particle. At this point I am finding it difficult to appreciate that you don't even see a distinction.
Why don't you provide some examples or indication of what you mean by 'most processes'? Maybe that will provide insight into your position.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by kbertsche, posted 04-19-2014 9:47 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 283 of 301 (726993)
05-14-2014 12:22 PM


"Blockbuster Big Bang Result May Fizzle, Rumor Suggests"
Perhaps claims that the Big Bang have been found are premature...
Science | AAAS
quote:
. And now a potential problem with the BICEP analysis has emerged, says Adam Falkowski, a theoretical particle physicist at the Laboratory of Theoretical Physics of Orsay in France...
To subtract the galactic foreground, BICEP researchers relied on a particular map of it generated by the European Space Agency's spacecraft Planck, which mapped the CMB across the entire sky from 2009 until last year. However, the BICEP team apparently interpreted the map as showing only the galactic emissions. In reality, it may also contain the largely unpolarized hazy glow from other galaxies, which has the effect of making the galactic microwaves coming from any particular point of the sky look less thoroughly polarized than they actually are. So using the map to strip out the galactic foreground may actually leave some of that foreground in the data where it could produce a spurious signal, Falkowski explains. "Apparently, there is something that needs to be corrected, so at this point the BICEP result cannot be taken at face value," he tells Science.
Stay tuned

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by AZPaul3, posted 05-14-2014 9:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 285 of 301 (727069)
05-15-2014 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by AZPaul3
05-14-2014 9:46 PM


Re: Say what?
Then this appears: "So using the map to strip out the galactic foreground may actually leave some of that foreground in the data where it could produce a spurious signal," Falkowski explains. Say what?
I take this to mean that a technique akin to noise cancellation was used, but the noise signal used for cancellation had data in it. The result would be data related artifacts in the processed signal.
Is he trying to say BICEP had its head up its ass and didn't know
No. What he seems to be saying at most is that BICEP released data prematurely and that BICEPs own analysis which is not yet complete may confirm that. I thought the article was fairly balanced about what the possibilities are.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by AZPaul3, posted 05-14-2014 9:46 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by AZPaul3, posted 05-15-2014 6:43 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 288 of 301 (737626)
09-27-2014 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by myvavoister
09-27-2014 12:17 AM


Update
big bang found??
Maybe the evidence described in this thread isn't...
RSONAANCES
quote:
As you already know, Planck finally came out of the closet. The Monday paper shows that the galactic dust polarization fraction in the BICEP window is larger than predicted by pre-Planck models, as previously suggested by an independent theorist's analysis. As a result, the dust contribution to the B-mode power spectrum at moderate multipoles is about 4 times larger than estimated by BICEP. This implies that the dust alone can account for the signal strength reported by BICEP in March this year, without invoking a primordial component from the early universe.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by myvavoister, posted 09-27-2014 12:17 AM myvavoister has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 301 (737627)
09-27-2014 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by myvavoister
09-27-2014 12:17 AM


Update
duplicate
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by myvavoister, posted 09-27-2014 12:17 AM myvavoister has not replied

  
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