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Author | Topic: Growing the Geologic Column | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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She has started several times that her reading of the Bible is infallible.
Never said any such thing.Message 1269 It's amazing that you haven't figured out that when you say "I never said X" it's easy to find examples of you saying X. And here's another:
If science contradicts God, so much for science. Science does not contradict God. It contradicts your simplistic and unrealistic interpretation of the Bible. But, of course, you claim both explicitly and implicitly to be infallible in your interpretation of the Bible. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
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Edited by JonF, : Dupe.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Dare I point out the remarkable lack of flatness and parallelism in that diagram?
Now, who is it that's always going on about the extraordinary flatness and parallelism in the venerated Geologic Column? Slipped my mind...
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
And the RATE group knows there are non-intrusive igneous rocks in the Muav. Smack dab in Faith's geologic column and yet another thing we observe that she says is impossible.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Ask Percy, I 'my assuming he is correct. I will look but I am on a tablet now and such searching is cumbersome.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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From Fission Tracks in Zircons: Evidence for Abundant Nuclear Decay (I've made the X's red:
Caption: Correlation of the Cambrian Tonto Group showing facies changes in the western Grand Canyon (after McKee and Resser [1945]; Elston [1989]). The stratigraphic position of the thin Muav and Tapeats tuff units are indicated by xxxxxx. The references are to books that are not readily available on-line.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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"Can you explain this in a way we can understand? In the way you've stated it here it sounds like you're saying that your own personal definition of the geologic column excludes tuffs, so that if we bring you evidence of tuffs in the geologic column then because your definition excludes tuffs that therefore those tuffs are not really there."
That’s exactly what she means. Remember that she doesn't acknowledge any requirement to make sense. She did acknowledge that tuffs need some thought but hasn't addressed them otherwise. Of course some time to think would be reasonable but we know what she will really do.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
New sediment is accumulating on top.
No rock is too hard to erode.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
We follow your argument just fine. It's just "look at it! It must be the fludde!" The problems are that there's no evidence for and plenty of evidence against that, and all you do is repeat your assertion.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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" Important for what I have no idea"
Yeah, you have no idea. That's the problem. It's important for understanding how the layers formed and how they up were changed after they formed. If you were capable of any thoughts outside of "da fludde musta doned it" that woulod be obvious. ABE I looked back and you have not presented an argument, just the usual unevidenced assertions and ignoring of the contradictory evidence edge presented. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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You claim that if there was a recent global flood, then the layers should be horizontal. Now you are saying that non-horizontal layers are also consistent with a recent global flood. She thinks that the fludde laid down all the layers in the world, and only after the fludde tectonic and volcanic processes bent and faulted them. Not tectonics or vulcanism in the fluddie. That's why tuffs interleaved with sedimentary layers is such a problem for her. They are unquestionably igneous and unquestionably formed before the layer above and after the layer below. It's also why faults that obviously terminated before an overlying layer was laid down is a problem too. Edited by JonF, : No reason given. Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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but there's no real problem if there were volcanoes during the Flood It's a huge problem. there are tuffs and non-intrusive lava all over the place. Don't forget the 22-ish tuffs in the Lake Turkana area. And there's no problem coming up with many, many more. When those deposits formed the area was not covered by water. That's not a global fludde. That's a gigantic problem for you.
The thing about faults is there's no way to tell for sure the timing of when they formed Percy has explained at length why this is false. But you just can't bring yourself to face reality.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
As for faults, I see no reason why they couldn't form underground without reaching the surface. Yeah, you ignored Message 646 just as you ignored so much. Pathetic.
Sure, if you really believe the faults had to go to the top of whatever layer was the topmost at the supposed time they occurred. I can't prove otherwise of course, but there's no necessary reason to believe that. For this example, though, it looks that way. I just wouldn't be dogmatic about it if I were you.
A fault cannot fail to go to the top of a stack of layers, because the rocks making up the strata are heavy in the extreme. No space can ever open up in a stack of layers for more than an instant before the layer above would fall into it. Your advice to not be dogmatic about this is good scientific advice in general, but one mustn't take it too far. In this case what you're actually saying is to not be too dogmatic about gravity. Look at it this way. We have these layers that I've labeled A through H:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Now a fault occurs that extends from layer H all the way up through layer D, but no higher. Let's say the amount of slip is a kilometer or two, in other words, nothing trivial like a meter a two. Here's what that would look like:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD| Empty EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE| Space FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF|DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH|FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ------------------------|GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG -------Basement Rock----|HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH See all that empty space of a kilometer or two between layer C and layer D on the right half of the diagram? A gap that large is impossible. If the thought of simple gravity acting on rock isn't persuasive to you then I offer validation in the fact that no gap of this size in sedimentary layers has ever been observed. As further validation I offer the frequent collapse of caves and mines (which are never anywhere close to a kilometer or two in height) when insufficient support is provided. Therefore faults must extend all the way up to the surface, and that stack would instead look like this:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA| BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB| CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC|AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD|BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE|CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF|DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG|EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH|FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ------------------------|GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG -------Basement Rock----|HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH And there are faults to the right of that one that go all the way from the bottom to the top, that is to the Base Tertiary, which shows that all the layers were in place when those faults occurred, and there's nothing there to show that the one you mention was earlier except its shortness, which probably doesn't mean that. What you're referring to as the shorter fault must have extended up to the surface that existed at the time of the fault. Nothing else is possible.
The fault just to the left of that section of strata that lies beneath the Late Jurassic Shelf Edge, occurred with the pushing up of that whole section, leaving the very same strata on the left lower in the stack. That's all that happened there. All the strata were already in place at that time. Probably also the Base tertiary but of course that can't be proved based on the fault lines. Here's the diagram again:
The part up until the last sentence is written in a way that indicates you think you disagree with me on that point, but either I don't disagree with you or I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. But about the last sentence about the Base tertiary, it could not have been present when the fault occurred, else there would be a discontinuity at the Base tertiary boundary and the fault would be represented on the diagram as extending into the Base tertiary.
Well you're good at the OE fairy tale, I'll give you that. Of course there were no millions of years, no eroded layers of an imaginary unconformity, just all the strata laid down in sequence and faulted and deformed according to whatever forces acted upon various parts of it. These are just bare assertions with no accompanying evidence or argument. I'll ignore them.
A NOTE ON INTERPRETIVE VERSUS PRACTICAL GEOLOGY Now, all this is a perfect example of what I'd been calling "historical Geology" that is all nothing but unprovable untestable interpretations. I'm calling it Old Earthism now because that other term apparently includes more than I want to include. But the principle is quite clear. You've got the whole OE interpretive system going there without any way to verify it. Using the very same data I just answer with my own interpretive system which I think is a lot more plausible. For the purposes of Practical Geology none of this should matter, just the positions of the rocks relative to each other. If the Base tertiary was laid down before the faulting or after doesn't matter, all that matters for practical purposes is where the rocks are now. This, too, is just bare assertion, so I'll ignore this, too. Feel free to repeat these arguments when you've got something to support them with. --Percy.
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Well I hadn't yet got to that post but now I feel no need whatsoever. Percy's ability to speculate is not very impressive and I think I'll just leave it at that. It's not speculation. It's explanation. ITYM you can't refute what he said so you'll ignore it. As you do with 99.999% of the evidence
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JonF Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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the formations made up of interspersed layers of volcanic and sedimentary layers that many posted appear to be volcanic in origin, the whole formation, You contradict yourself in one phrase. Sedimentary rock is not volcanic. It's sedimentary.
that is why I don't include them in my view of the basically sedimentary Geologic Column Ignoring the fatal flaw of subaerial volcanic deposits all over the Earth.
I still have to research this stuff, but I won't be reporting on it here. Yeah, none of this scientific discussion and development for you. You'll post only where few people will see it and those who do have drunk your Kool-Aid. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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