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Author Topic:   Group of atheists has filed a lawsuit
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 213 of 479 (629031)
08-15-2011 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by cavediver
08-15-2011 8:50 AM


Re: The History is Key
It's not there for them, it's there for those that found it significant.
Then the ones who found it significant, and likeminded individuals, should be the ones who should fund it. Instead, the funding is from the government, which means people who oppose it still have to pay for it.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by cavediver, posted 08-15-2011 8:50 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 240 of 479 (629260)
08-16-2011 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by antitheistsCOUK
08-16-2011 5:13 PM


Re: A cross seems quite apt
What better symbol than a cross to show and remember what misery and destruction religion can lead to.
Except for the fact that xtians don't see it that way. They see it as jeebus being there for them after allowing the murder of thousands of people. At least he helped them clean up the mess he allowed?

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by antitheistsCOUK, posted 08-16-2011 5:13 PM antitheistsCOUK has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 290 of 479 (629589)
08-18-2011 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by AZPaul3
08-18-2011 5:42 PM


Re: Something to chew on
Do the experts in the field see artistic value in the Smithsonian piece? Yes. Should it be displayed? Yes.
Except.......the second christians cry foul, they get their way immediately.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 5:42 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 7:12 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 293 of 479 (629592)
08-18-2011 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by AZPaul3
08-18-2011 7:12 PM


Re: Something to chew on
The difference being: the exhibit Fear linked to is privately funded. The WTC museum? Not so much.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 7:12 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 7:34 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 297 of 479 (629597)
08-18-2011 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by AZPaul3
08-18-2011 7:34 PM


Re: Something to chew on
If the experts with the knowledge of such things assess the value then censorship of any sort, whether from government or from public outrage is not warranted.
I'm not talking about censorship. I'm talking about the fact that on the one hand, you have people who ARE, effectively, funding this cross and they are offended. Are they being listened to? Yea...in court.
On the other hand, you have a privately funded piece (not, apparently, funded by the Catholic League, either) complain and it gets removed immediately because they cried about it. Yet it's the Atheists who are called cry babies and shit blowers or whatever names you lot have called them?

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 7:34 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 8:35 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 301 of 479 (629604)
08-18-2011 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by AZPaul3
08-18-2011 8:35 PM


Re: Something to chew on
But I am. What the Am Atheists are trying is censorship.
No, it's not. Their first reaction was to request representation of all faiths. Hardly an attempt at censorship.
"you lot"? I AM one of "you lot"!
My apologies. I thought you were one of the ones calling AA names just for standing up for something they believe in.
Wake up hooah. We are not going to win this battle ...
Who is "we"? I've no stake in this battle, aside from this particular thread lol.
...and it will make our struggle to win the hearts and minds of the society even harder.
No one said it would be easy, but standing up for what you believe in instead of letting religion get it's way time and time again is, IMO, the right direction to be headed.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by AZPaul3, posted 08-18-2011 8:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 398 of 479 (734700)
08-01-2014 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by ringo
08-01-2014 11:41 AM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
That's a pretty bold claim. Do you happen to have anything to support it? I, for one, have never seen any non-christian rocking a cross necklace. I, for one, have never seen a non-christian displaying a cross in their house. But then, argument from ignorance and all that, so please, show me the money! Unless you are using "cultural christians" as your copout. If that is the case, those people are still christians because they more often than not believe in jesus in some fashion.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by ringo, posted 08-01-2014 11:41 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by ringo, posted 08-01-2014 12:05 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 401 of 479 (734729)
08-01-2014 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by ringo
08-01-2014 12:05 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
For one thing, it is non-denominational. It is associated with a culture that happens to have a lot of Christian roots.
Am I wrong in taking this to mean that you are saying it is pure coincidence that the cross has meaning? "Happens to have Christian roots"? Would Americans or anything region that "happens to have a lot of christian roots" wear crosses if not for the christian roots?
What part of that did you miss?
The part where you admitted it as a christian symbol instead of calling it a cultural one. "Culturally christian" is still christian. Being an atheist that grew up in christian culture doesn't automatically make one a "cultural christian"unless they do christian things and doing christian things would make them ::GASP:: a christian.
I beilieve in much of what the fictional character Jesus stood for but I don't consider myself a Christian.
Do you see the difference in what I wrote and what you wrote? Belief in words written by what you admit to be a fictional character is not anywhere remotely close to believing IN that fictional character. It is the belief IN that fictional character that is important and the main tenant of that religion.
I have a crucifix that I made myself. My fundy friends and relatives are either puzzled or horrified.
Gee, I wonder why they look at you funny.
Or, you assume that every stranger you see wearing a cross is a Christian.
yes, because it is a symbol of christianity.
tell me: would anyone wear a cross had it not been for this jesus character or christianity? Do Muslims wear crosses? Jews? Hindus?
I, for one, have a Jesus fish bracelet and a WWJD necklace. Do they count?
And I am sure you don't wear them to be ironic whatsoever, right?
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by ringo, posted 08-01-2014 12:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by ringo, posted 08-02-2014 12:02 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 403 of 479 (734736)
08-01-2014 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by mike the wiz
08-01-2014 5:27 PM


At least you've offered Faith some reprieve, so you can take solace in that I suppose since what you post is complete nonsense.
This atheist philosophy
........is "I do not believe in god". Nothing more. Everything else you've stated is a complete fabrication not founded in reality.
if atheists were true to those implications
You mean "if atheists weren't actually atheists, but the kind of atheists I portray them as"?
Try less preaching and more honesty.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by mike the wiz, posted 08-01-2014 5:27 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 415 of 479 (734816)
08-02-2014 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by ringo
08-02-2014 12:02 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
So your argument boils down to "nuh uh, you're wrong because I say so"? Recall my first response to you where I asked you to back up your claim? Ringo's say so is unfortunately not sufficient.
The US is culturally Christian
No, it isn't.
Sure it does.
Nah, it doesn't
Well, they do. Most atheists celebrate Christmas and Easter, don't they? But they do it in a cultural way instead of a religious way.
Christmas = Winter Solstice
Easter = eggs and candy.
No Christianity there whatsoever. No nativity scenes in my house, no dead baby jesus on easter. Only bunnies that shit candy and fat men in red suits that shit gifts. You know, how my pagan ancestors wanted it. Not how the christians co-opted it.
Sure it is. That's what I tell Christians all the time. What matters is the message, not the messenger. Unfortunately, some religious people have it reversed, like you do.
So in ringo world, Christianity now means "belief in what jesus says" instead of the way it has been for eons of "belief that jesus existed and died for your sins"? So you, Ringo, are a christian?
I have to ask again because your response is obsurd: you do realize that belief in what someone says is not the same as belief in that someone, right?
As I mentioned to NoNukes, and he agreed, the origin of the symbol is irrelevant. Things change.
If you can point me to ANYONE other than yourself (because I don't even believe you) that uses the cross in a non-christian manner, I will cede my point.
The cross is a christian symbol and has christian roots. The only people silly enough to say otherwise is you and this court ruling. And neither of you have provided ANY evidence other than Ringo's say so.
Certainly not. I wear them because I believe in the message, not the messenger.
So jesus' message is "ask me what I would do in this situation" and you wear a symbol that represents a religion and not at all what the character said? does that make a lick of sense to you? I don't think it does and I think you are just trying to be a contrarian.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by ringo, posted 08-02-2014 12:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by ringo, posted 08-02-2014 1:43 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 418 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2014 1:45 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 420 of 479 (734832)
08-02-2014 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by NoNukes
08-02-2014 1:45 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
In short it is not that the cross is no longer a religious symbol
That is the point the atheists are making. It still is a religious symbol. Why is everyone trying to deny that it is? It rings the same as the "I'm not religious (because being religious has negative connotations), I just have a personal relationship with jesus".

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2014 1:45 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2014 8:15 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 422 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2014 9:02 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 423 of 479 (734868)
08-02-2014 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by NoNukes
08-02-2014 8:15 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
Who is doing that?
Maybe I am stupid, but it appears that Ringo is trying to make a case that a cross no longer specifically has religious connotations. However, it is my belief that he is simply trying to play devils advocate.
Then there is the court ruling:
quote:
the record compels the conclusion that the actual purpose of displaying the cross in the September 11 Museum is a genuine secular interest
I wholeheartedly disagree that anything about a cross is secular. This part of the panel statement seems to me to indicate that the cross in this instance is some how not religious, but secular. Why is that? So they can skirt the constitution and have a government sanctioned religious symbol.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2014 8:15 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2014 2:56 AM hooah212002 has not replied
 Message 437 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-04-2014 3:43 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 431 of 479 (734979)
08-03-2014 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by NoNukes
08-03-2014 9:13 PM


Imagine some steel beams bent into a perfect Star of David and found at a 9-11 dump salvage site sometime next week.
That depends. Was the WTC made out of Stars of David? Because it was actually made out of pre-fabricated crosses.
The World Trade Center was built using prefabricated parts which were bolted or welded together at the site.[1] This process dramatically reduced construction time and costs. Using this process, t-beams and other types of cross beams were created and used in each of the World Trade Center buildings.[2] When the Twin Towers collapsed, it sent debris down on to 6 World Trade Center, and gutted the interior of World Trade Center 6. In the midst of the WTC6 debris was this intact cross beam, which its discoverer believes came from the North Tower.[3][4]
Those with access to the site used the cross as a shrine of sorts, leaving messages on it or praying before it.
Souce
I, as a secular non christian, regularly pray to secular items that don't have religious meaning. As an alcoholic, I actually do pray to the porcelain god.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2014 9:13 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2014 1:48 AM hooah212002 has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 436 of 479 (735016)
08-04-2014 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by NoNukes
08-04-2014 1:14 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
and in particular atheists that are particularly put off by public displays of Christianity like hooah200212.
My objection is the government sanctioning of Christian displays, not necessarily public displays of Christianity. That is what this thread is about.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2014 1:14 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 441 of 479 (735021)
08-04-2014 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by New Cat's Eye
08-04-2014 4:28 PM


Re: Atheists lose, cross stays
The case is closed. You lost. Get over it.
that's it, shut the thread down. close up shop. No more discussion here folks.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-04-2014 4:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-04-2014 4:41 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
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