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Author Topic:   Citing a quote in a college essay
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 1 of 18 (734108)
07-25-2014 9:30 PM


I started taking some college classes and I have to write some essays and I have to (obviously) cite any sources I use. I found a quote from Aristotle but I can find no actual source for it other than Wikiquote and I am unsure how to properly cite such a thing. None of my university resources say how to do this other than differentiating between stuff that is common knowledge and not, with common knowledge material not needing proper sourcing (other than identifying who said it). I am aware how to cite a quote that is in some form of a material (journal, website, magazine etc), but this one has me stumped because I am unsure if it is considered common knowledge.
I have asked my class mates (this is an online class, btw) and my instructor, but fuck those idiots don't like to answer questions and instead just bloviate on about themselves in order to meet the participation requirement. I ask you guys because I know a number of you have written academic essays and ought to know proper APA format.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by NoNukes, posted 07-25-2014 10:03 PM hooah212002 has replied
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 18 (734110)
07-25-2014 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 9:30 PM


I started taking some college classes and I have to write some essays and I have to (obviously) cite any sources I use. I found a quote from Aristotle but I can find no actual source for it other than Wikiquote and I am unsure how to properly cite such a thing.
How important is it that Arisotle actually said what was in the quote. The purpose of citation is two fold. Giving proper credit (avoiding plagiarism) and providing the authority to enhance your content.
I would just cite to wikiquote as saying Aristotle says. I would not bother authenticating that Aristotle actually said the statement. The dude was dead wrong about lots of stuff. It's okay to be tentative about the attribution.
Hope this helps.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 9:30 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:15 PM NoNukes has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 3 of 18 (734111)
07-25-2014 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by NoNukes
07-25-2014 10:03 PM


How important is it that Arisotle actually said what was in the quote.
Not important at all, but I am 'done" with the paper and it is my only source (no sources are required, per se, but the instructions do say to cite any sources).
Giving proper credit (avoiding plagiarism) and providing the authority to enhance your content.
It does the latter, in a way. The essay is about critical thinking and ethics and the quote is "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.", so I think it fits quite well given the context.
I would just cite to wikiquote as saying Aristotle says. I would not bother authenticating that Aristotle actually said the statement. The dude was dead wrong about lots of stuff. It's okay to be tentative about the attribution.
I can easily take it out, but I would like to know for future reference. All of my google searches seem to indicate that there is no one hard and fast way to do it.
As it stands now, I have the quote opening a paragraph like this
quote:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." This quote from Aristotle....
Should I do the quote in quotation marks, followed by (Aristotle) or is the way I have it good enough? I do have to prove a reference sheet, so would I have to include this on there as well? Or does it fall under "common knowledge"?
Here is what the school says in regards to what needs to be documented/cited:
quote:
Which Sources Require Documentation?
Everything in a paper that does not contain common knowledge or your original ideas must be documented.
Be sure to document the following types of sources:
◾Direct quotations
◾Books and periodicals
◾Movies and videos
◾Poems and songs
◾Personal communications
◾Interviews
◾Visual information
◾Websites
◾All information obtained online
Many are under the impression that information on the Internet does not require documentation unless it is from a specific online journal. However, all information found online should be considered copyrighted material and should not be used without proper documentation.
A key rule to follow is When in doubtdocument.
Which Sources do not Require Documentation?
You do not need to document:
◾Your original ideas
◾Common knowledge

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by NoNukes, posted 07-25-2014 10:03 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 07-25-2014 10:28 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 10 by herebedragons, posted 07-26-2014 8:57 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 13 by NoNukes, posted 07-27-2014 3:45 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 18 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-01-2014 2:35 AM hooah212002 has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 819 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 4 of 18 (734113)
07-25-2014 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 10:15 PM


"- attributed to Aristotle" would fix it.
But he said it in Greek, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:15 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:31 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 5 of 18 (734115)
07-25-2014 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coragyps
07-25-2014 10:28 PM


Good deal. Thanks. I think I will take it out, though.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 07-25-2014 10:28 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 6 of 18 (734143)
07-26-2014 2:55 AM


I think it's acceptable to simply quote him without giving full source so long as you're demonstrating that you know how to reference in the rest of your paper. I'd use the 'attributed to' method too. That quote is used a lot in academic papers and doesn't ever seem to be fully referenced which may mean it's apocryphal anyway.
As an example, it's used well here:
http://www.ccsenet.org/...php/ass/article/download/9389/7128

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by hooah212002, posted 07-26-2014 3:01 AM Tangle has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 7 of 18 (734145)
07-26-2014 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Tangle
07-26-2014 2:55 AM


That is exactly how I initially wanted to use it but I was unsure how it would look to lead off with a quote that is separate from the paragraph. I kinda thought it would make it appear as though I was writing about that phrase. Thanks.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Tangle, posted 07-26-2014 2:55 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by CosmicChimp, posted 07-26-2014 5:05 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


(1)
Message 8 of 18 (734150)
07-26-2014 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by hooah212002
07-26-2014 3:01 AM


I agree with Coragyps and Tangle (attributed to...). Leave it in! It is such a great quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by hooah212002, posted 07-26-2014 3:01 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 18 (734151)
07-26-2014 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 9:30 PM


format
... I have to write some essays and I have to (obviously) cite any sources I use. I found a quote from Aristotle but I can find no actual source for it other than Wikiquote and I am unsure how to properly cite such a thing. ...
One of the things I did when I wrote the Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 thread was try to provide proper documentation for the material I used. Like you I could find no hard and fast "rule" about it, but I was able to cobble together a basic format to use with on-line sources.
quote:
Where possible, I have tried to follow the standard academic procedure for citing online publications, where if you last accessed this page on 12May2010, and used version 2 number 1, you would cite this as:
Smith, Paul "Age Correlations and An Old Earth" EvC Forum. Ver 2 no 1 updated 27 Jan 2007, accessed 12May2010 from EvC Forum: Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1.
That would be
author/s, article or web-page title (in italics), source name (journal, blog, etc), when the article\page was originally posted (if available), when it was last updated (if available), the date you accessed it and the url used.
Unfortunately the link to format is broken, but other sites have something similar.
See the bottom of Message 2 for examples using wiki and other on-line resources.
It also seems that the formats used depend somewhat on the discipline on the order of the citation specifics, so there would appear to be some flexibility, as long as the information is complete enough for another person to access it to verify the material.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 9:30 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
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herebedragons
Member (Idle past 942 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 10 of 18 (734152)
07-26-2014 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 10:15 PM


Should I do the quote in quotation marks, followed by (Aristotle) or is the way I have it good enough? I do have to prove a reference sheet, so would I have to include this on there as well? Or does it fall under "common knowledge"?
A direct quote from any source must be enclosed by quotation marks and properly attributed. Aristotle was a Greek philosopher who is recognized as the source of many memorable quotes would be a common knowledge statement, but a direct quote would not be, no matter how "common" its attribution. For example, "Fourscore and twenty years ago..." or "I have a dream... " - everyone should know who those quotes are from, so you might think they are common knowledge, but to use them in a paper, they must be properly cited.
These types of quotes can be a bit troubling to sort out though. A great reference source for citations is Purdue Owl. This page is for APA style, they also have MLA and Chicago style references. Your instructor should inform you of what style is required. When unspecified, I use APA; it seems to be the most commonly used style and you can become more familiar with a style you use most often. The pertinent format for this case is found under --> Reference List: Electronic Sources --> Non-periodical Web Document
Now for this particular situation, this is what I would do (I found a better source than Wikiquote)
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." (Aristotle, n.d.) This quote from Aristotle....
Sources:
Aristotle (n.d.). Philosophical insights from Aristotle. Retrieved from: P20 Motivation and Learning Lab – A University of Kentucky P20 Innovation Lab
Anyway, best wishes on your new endeavor. Do you have a degree track, or just taking some classes for now?
ABE: I missed Tangle's response in Message 6 and I agree with his point and that it would be acceptable to do it the way he suggests. However, I think that at the beginning stages of your education it is good practice to cite everything. Knowing when and how to provide citations is one of the hardest things to do when writing a scholarly paper IMO, so the more you can practice it, the better. No one ever got reprimanded for over citing, but failing to cite can be a serious offense.
HBD
Edited by herebedragons, : added ABE

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:15 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 07-26-2014 12:26 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 11 of 18 (734166)
07-26-2014 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by herebedragons
07-26-2014 8:57 AM


I am pursuing my Bachelors in IT with a certificate in Network Support (I Am trying to change it to a CCNA certificate because I enrolled in haste for I had been putting off college for the last 8 years and kept making excuses, so finally one day I said fuck it and got enrolled quick like within a week) and all undergraduate papers are to be in APA format.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." (Aristotle, n.d.) This quote from Aristotle....
Sources:
Aristotle (n.d.). Philosophical insights from Aristotle. Retrieved from: P20 Motivation and Learning Lab – A University of Kentucky P20 Innovation Lab
That looks good and I agree about getting into a good habit of providing proper source material regardless. I hate writing as it is, so I would hate to get dinged for something so "trivial" that is just a matter of research. I'd rather my points be taken off for my atrocious creativity and lack of ability to expound on original thoughts.
Thanks for all the help everyone. I asked this same question in class discussion 3 days ago and have yet to get a single response. I also asked about the naming convention for the Word file and crickets are the only respondents.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by herebedragons, posted 07-26-2014 8:57 AM herebedragons has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 12 of 18 (734167)
07-26-2014 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by RAZD
07-26-2014 7:25 AM


Re: format
That would be
author/s, article or web-page title (in italics), source name (journal, blog, etc), when the article\page was originally posted (if available), when it was last updated (if available), the date you accessed it and the url used.
Unfortunately the link to format is broken, but other sites have something similar.
See the bottom of Message 2 for examples using wiki and other on-line resources.
It also seems that the formats used depend somewhat on the discipline on the order of the citation specifics, so there would appear to be some flexibility, as long as the information is complete enough for another person to access it to verify the material.
The university has all kinds of generators so that, if I have a website, book, magazine or journal, I can plug that info in and it will format it properly. The thing is, I didn't know how to attribute a quote that doesn't seem to be from any of those things and is apparently just something Aristotle said at some point, maybe. They also have a program for us to install that properly formats word documents into APA style and has an automatic cite tool (easily plug in source material).
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by RAZD, posted 07-26-2014 7:25 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 18 (734262)
07-27-2014 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by hooah212002
07-25-2014 10:15 PM


You have gotten answers that I agree with. The problem is that you don't know if Aristotle actually said what was said. Using 'attributed to' and footnoting the source as Wikiquotes deals with the problem quite nicely.
Many are under the impression that information on the Internet does not require documentation unless it is from a specific online journal.
Many people rationalize all types of misappropriation of material they find on the internet. But following ill-advised "impressions" in an academic setting can have consequences. Ask Montana Senator John Walsh about that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 07-25-2014 10:15 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 07-27-2014 4:50 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 14 of 18 (734276)
07-27-2014 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by NoNukes
07-27-2014 3:45 PM


Many people rationalize all types of misappropriation of material they find on the internet. But following ill-advised "impressions" in an academic setting can have consequences. Ask Montana Senator John Walsh about that.
Of course. That is why I came to you guys with this thread. I fucked off in HS and didn't really apply myself. I have no intention of continuing that behavior now in college.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by NoNukes, posted 07-27-2014 3:45 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 07-27-2014 4:56 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9531
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 15 of 18 (734278)
07-27-2014 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by hooah212002
07-27-2014 4:50 PM


Normally you can ask your tutor/supervisor these things........

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 07-27-2014 4:50 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by hooah212002, posted 07-27-2014 5:06 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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