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Author Topic:   SCIENCE: -- "observational science" vs "historical science" vs ... science.
jar
Member
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 211 of 614 (731987)
07-02-2014 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Faith
07-02-2014 12:37 PM


Re: Faith continues to post really stupid misrepresentations.
Good grief.
Everywhere there is an exposed uplift.
See the dirt, plants, grasses? That is the next strata forming.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 12:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 212 of 614 (731988)
07-02-2014 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by ringo
07-02-2014 1:12 PM


Re: Siccar Point
The creationist "community" isn't into this particular issue, only I am that I know of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 1:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:24 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 213 of 614 (731989)
07-02-2014 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by PaulK
07-02-2014 1:17 PM


Re: Siccar Point
So, you are asserting that the force was applied directly to the lower strata and not to the upper strata. Do you have any evidence for that ? Any reason why it should be true not just at Siccar Point, but at angular unconformities in general?
Sure, because all these things are worldwide and the tectonic forces occurred in the same time frame, somewhere around the end of the Flood. I think volcanoes also and other things also occurred in the same time period. Proving it of course is something else I suppose.
I've answered this many times before. Balance of forces. The point where the weight above balanced out the force of the buckling below.
That doesn't answer it at all. In fact it leads us to expect to see a gradual transition.
Shouldn't. Point of equilibrium, above which weight keeps strata stationary, below which strata buckle. Makes good sense.
And I think different textures between the layers probably facilitated movement at the particular level where it occurred.
That doesn't seem very plausible either. I've asked you for support for that assertion, too.
Why would different textures help movement?
I've given some support in the past. But the fact is that I'm just too intuitive for you. Seems obvious to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by PaulK, posted 07-02-2014 1:17 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by PaulK, posted 07-03-2014 1:16 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 214 of 614 (731990)
07-02-2014 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:17 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Faith writes:
The creationist "community" isn't into this particular issue, only I am that I know of.
So even other creationists, who presumably have the same level of Biblical understanding that you (claim to) have, don't agree with you.

"I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:26 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 215 of 614 (731991)
07-02-2014 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by ringo
07-02-2014 1:38 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Yes there are correct and incorrect interpretations, but the point is that when you are dealing with past one-time events ALL YOU HAVE is interpretation, you DO NOT HAVE a method for testing if your interpretation is correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 1:38 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by NoNukes, posted 07-02-2014 3:28 PM Faith has replied
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:29 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 233 by PaulK, posted 07-03-2014 1:28 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 216 of 614 (731992)
07-02-2014 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by ringo
07-02-2014 3:24 PM


Re: Siccar Point
I don't know if they would agree with me or not, I haven't tried to persuade them. But many of them do have the strong opinion that the Flood began after the Great Unconformity in the GC occurred, so it might be as hard to persuade them as anybody here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:34 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 217 of 614 (731994)
07-02-2014 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:24 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Yes there are correct and incorrect interpretations, but the point is that when you are dealing with past one-time events ALL YOU HAVE is interpretation, you DO NOT HAVE a method for testing if your interpretation is correct
Right. For example, there is no way to tell well after the conception event, whether Sam, Joe, or Bill is the father of the Sue's baby. All of that DNA testing that looks at everything except who mounted Sue last year is just hog wash.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:29 PM NoNukes has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 218 of 614 (731995)
07-02-2014 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:24 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Faith writes:
Yes there are correct and incorrect interpretations, but the point is that when you are dealing with past one-time events ALL YOU HAVE is interpretation, you DO NOT HAVE a method for testing if your interpretation is correct.
Sure you do. I suggested a test and you agreed to consider it.
It's true that that would only tell you what could have happened, not what did happen - but you can certainly eliminate incorrect interpretations by determining what could not happen.

"I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 219 of 614 (731996)
07-02-2014 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by NoNukes
07-02-2014 3:28 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Do I have to keep repeating for the dull of memory, THE PREHISTORICV UNWITNESSED PAST? I guess so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by NoNukes, posted 07-02-2014 3:28 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by NoNukes, posted 07-02-2014 4:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 220 of 614 (731997)
07-02-2014 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:26 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Faith writes:
But many of them do have the strong opinion that the Flood began after the Great Unconformity in the GC occurred, so it might be as hard to persuade them as anybody here.
Well, "strong opinions" are not particularly persuasive. I personally am more impressed by a geologist who can, for example, find a vein of molybdenum than I am by an armchair creationist with a big pile of useless opinions. Has "flood geology" ever produced any useful results?

"I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:40 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 221 of 614 (731998)
07-02-2014 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by ringo
07-02-2014 3:34 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Not yet. Neither has the ToE, but it never will. If Geology stuck to finding molybdenum instead of pontificating about the age of the earth I wouldn't have a problem with it either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:49 PM Faith has replied
 Message 231 by hooah212002, posted 07-03-2014 1:19 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 222 of 614 (731999)
07-02-2014 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:40 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Faith writes:
If Geology stuck to finding molybdenum instead of pontificating about the age of the earth I wouldn't have a problem with it either.
Sure you would. You have a problem with all science indirectly. You can't throw out one part without throwing out the whole thing. If the age of the earth is wrong, then chemistry and physics are wrong too.

"I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:54 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1693 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 223 of 614 (732000)
07-02-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by ringo
07-02-2014 3:49 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Sigh. No they aren't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 3:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by ringo, posted 07-02-2014 4:03 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 224 of 614 (732001)
07-02-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:54 PM


Re: Siccar Point
Faith writes:
Sigh. No they aren't.
"Nuh uh," is still not a very persuasive argument.
Since the thread is about different "kinds" of science, maybe you could elaborate on how you think chemistry and physics could stand if the earth turned out to be wrong. Hint: you're throwing out decay rates and thermodynamics.

"I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 614 (732003)
07-02-2014 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Faith
07-02-2014 3:29 PM


Re: Siccar Point
THE PREHISTORICV UNWITNESSED PAST? I guess so.
You can repeat that if you want to. But it is not helpful to your argument.
DNA testing does not stop working on even prehistoric situations, and the questions of whether there were witnesses is not relevant. So your qualification is complete nonsense.
And I note that the limitation does not keep you from making up nonsense about SICCAR point. Who witnessed that?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 07-02-2014 3:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
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