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Author Topic:   Continuation of Flood Discussion
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 421 of 1304 (731679)
05-20-2014 11:00 AM


Re: the Great Unconformity scenario
You asked for my assessment and you read the second sentence and stopped because I said "slip fault." I also talked about another scenario where I didn't say "slip fault." Either way there would have had to be slipping at the Great Unconformity, No?
Your post is useless to me... Not reading it. Go away.
Hey you've won, go celebrate or something. You've chased the creationist away with your jargon and your rank-pulling and your namecalling. You've made this discussion as odious as it could possibly be and as useless. Have a good time. I'll take up my argument elsewhere.
There was no tectonic activity in other locations during the laying down of the strata. No you have not shown that.
the objections range from the sublime to the ridiculous, even a long utterly insane exchange about the meaning of the word "parallel."
ABE:
Go celebrate with edge. You've won the debate.
/ABE
You are so immature. I think I will go away and play with some other kids now.
HBD
Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 422 of 1304 (731680)
05-20-2014 11:01 AM


Re: the Great Unconformity scenario
Yes you do that. Go play with the kids. You've chased away the creationist cause I don't play by your rules little boy. Have fun.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 423 of 1304 (731681)
05-20-2014 11:05 AM


Re: pick a site
I know the Flood happened and the GC shows the ridiculousness of Old Earth explanations. All other locations would also be products of the Flood but it would be harder answering all the Geology objections.
"I know birds can't fly and the ostrich shows the ridiculousness of Ornithologist explanations. All other birds would also be flightless but it would be harder answering all the Zoology objections."
If anything, this analogy favors you, because we have shown extensive evidence that the G.C. strata weren't produced by a single flood.
Right, so you pick the other location you want to discuss, OK?
Ideally, your model would fit all of them. That was my point. At the very least you should consider a wide range of phenomena; and you should try to keep an open mind on the subject of whether completely different geological features were all produced by exactly the same process. You might find --- who knows? --- that the different features are best explained by the diverse known geological processes that perfectly explain them.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 424 of 1304 (731682)
05-20-2014 11:17 AM


Re: pick a site
Oh but I expect to find different features explained by diverse known geological processes, just not in the time frame they have in mind. The Flood itself laid down the strata and probably had a lot to do with washing away the uppermost strata in many places;. But there was tectonic activity and volcanic and all the rest. They all played their part.

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 425 of 1304 (731683)
05-20-2014 12:44 PM


Re: salt basin
You know, I don't understand half of what he says either. But why is it his fault that I don't know the terms and processes he is talking about? If I really want to understand, I either look it up or ask "What do you mean by ***? Could you explain *** a little more? I don't understand."
I have no problems with answering questions. I just cannot guarantee that I know all the answers.
Interpretation: Rifting, not compression is what caused faulting in the Supergroup.
Yes. The way the GC Sg resides in down-faulted blocks suggests extension. These are called 'normal faults'.
Notice that the blocks are what I call faulted tilt-blocks. When the Unkar was deposited, those beds were horizontal or nearly so. My point is that the entire block has been tilted, including the underlying schist. When we take out this deformation, we would still see deformation of an even earlier age in the Vishnu.
This is one of Faith's problems. There are more events than she imagines and cramming them into 6ky is impossible.
And I haven't even mentioned the granitic intrusive event yet....

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 426 of 1304 (731684)
05-20-2014 12:48 PM


Re: salt basin
There was no tectonic activity in other locations during the laying down of the strata. No you have not shown that
And you can support this statement? How do you explain the deep subsidence of the Paraox Basin at the same time as the Supai Group was being deposited in the GC area.
And that's just right next door to the Colorado Plateau. Would you like to visit the Ordovician Period on the east coast of the US, for instance?

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 427 of 1304 (731685)
05-20-2014 12:50 PM


Re: salt basin
Go celebrate with edge. You've won the debate.
There are no winners here. Ignorance is invincible.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 428 of 1304 (731686)
05-20-2014 2:31 PM


Re: salt basin
I can pull rank too: Some day God will show you that the Flood did happen, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it did happen according to some of the stuff I've been arguing here about the strata. It just makes sense. So I'll leave you to answer to Him for now. You WILL have to answer to Him, you really should keep that in mind for lots of reasons.

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 429 of 1304 (731687)
05-22-2014 9:17 AM


Summation Time?
Should this thread remain open, or is it time for summation mode? If I hear no strong wishes for keeping this open then within a couple days I'll send it into summation mode.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 430 of 1304 (731688)
05-22-2014 9:41 AM


Re: Summation Time?
Summation mode makes sense at this stage. Faith has resorted to scare tactics at this point, so my guess is the science portion of this discussion is over.

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 431 of 1304 (731689)
05-22-2014 10:10 AM


Re: Summation Time?
I don't know Percy, when I get involved in threads like this I always hope to find out more about what DID happen, but end up getting sucked into discussing fantasies about what COULD NOT have happened. I may have missed it, but I would have liked to see how the Transgressions/Regressions model actually fits into what we see in the GC.
So I guess if anyone else would like to discuss the topic and ignore the B.S., then I wouldn't mind continuing this thread. Otherwise, shut it down.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 432 of 1304 (731690)
05-22-2014 10:55 AM


Re: Summation Time?
Percy, I have learned a lot from this thread.
If Edge still has answers to post I would like to see it remain open.
Is there any reason to hurry to close it?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 433 of 1304 (731691)
05-22-2014 11:51 AM


Re: Summation Time?
Administratively, there's no hurry to close the thread.
Personally, I, too, wish the discussion would continue. I also share HBD's concerns about the lengthy explanatory diversions into what isn't possible - seems like there should at least be general agreement about how the laws of nature work. I'm also concerned about the long list of issues that are being disregarded, and that it seems like one side is talking about science while the other is engaged in a religious mission.
But I'm learning a great deal about geology and I'd like to see that continue. Walther's Law wasn't something I'd ever heard of. With the help of other discussions I'd sort of worked out in my mind what happens with transgressions/regressions, but to see it formalized was very helpful.
Closing a thread often prompts a new thread proposal. Even when this thread closes I'm sure we'll be discussing the flood again soon after.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 434 of 1304 (731692)
05-22-2014 5:36 PM


Re: Summation Time?
This actually was a pretty good thread. It caused me to look up and check a lot of things that I had forgotten about, and to look at some fresh ideas from recent history. Personally, I think the problem right now is that there is a bit of grievance fatigue out there. Maybe a technical discussion could continue.
Edited by edge, : fix punctuation

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 435 of 1304 (731693)
05-22-2014 8:19 PM


Re: Summation Time?
Maybe a technical discussion could continue.
I'd like to see the technical discussion continue, but I don't know much geology beyond the rock cycle stuff they teach in general science courses. If you or anyone else out there could comment on one of the following questions maybe that would be of some interest. I understand that the questions are highly subjective, and it is no problem if you change your mind about the answers.
1. What feature of the grand canyon would you say is most problematic for people who maintain that the GC was created in a few months by flood waters.
2. What features of the grand canyon exist for which the scientific explanations are very speculative and possibly bordering on just plain guessing? Surely there are some perplexing features.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

  
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