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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 451 of 1309 (727831)
05-20-2014 10:29 PM


evidence
duplicate
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 452 of 1309 (727832)
05-20-2014 10:29 PM


evidence
Article on bakery "facing hundreds of thousands of dollars fine" for refusal to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple
Same situation in Colorado only at the time of the report no fines had yet been levied.
Here's a story about the Christian photographer in New Mexico
And a similar situation involving a Washington State florist
The mentality is clear in these situations.
There should be more recent news but haven't turned it up yet.
You can also google lawsuits against churches over gay weddings.

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2014 2:58 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 454 by Larni, posted 05-21-2014 3:46 AM Faith has replied
 Message 456 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 4:28 AM Faith has replied
 Message 484 by Modulous, posted 05-21-2014 2:52 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 453 of 1309 (727834)
05-21-2014 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:29 PM


Re: evidence
OK, Faith I think that this is an opportunity for you to learn something and to start fixing one of the problems holding you back in debates. As numerous examples attest you aren't very good on evaluating evidence. You need to understand what the facts are, which claims they support and how the facts support the claims.
So, to start.
1) which of your claims is supported by this alleged evidence? I think we need not bother with undisputed claims here
2) how does the evidence support the claims?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:29 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 454 of 1309 (727835)
05-21-2014 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:29 PM


Re: evidence
Did you know how much the couple where find for refusing to serve those no good lesbians? Bearing in mind the Fox News link says 'likely to face hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines (as opposed to what they were fined?).
That's right: nothing. They were fined nothing.
AN alternative to fearmongering

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 4:21 AM Larni has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 455 of 1309 (727837)
05-21-2014 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 454 by Larni
05-21-2014 3:46 AM


Re: evidence
Where is YOUR evidence that they weren't fined because everything I've heard is that they were.
The pastors who have been arrested also weren't kept in jail. But some have definitely been arrested and that's enormity enough in a formerly Christian nation.
It doesn't matter right now what the specific outcome of a case is. What the stories show is that there is a lot of conflict going on between the gay rights people and Christians and that the courts are against the Christians. These are early cases, we're up to about the early 30s in Germany. The fact that Christians and churches are being baited like this is a sign of more to come.
But I'll see what I can track down about the fine because I did hear very recently that a fine had been levied in one of the cases.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by Larni, posted 05-21-2014 3:46 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 5:00 AM Faith has replied
 Message 472 by Theodoric, posted 05-21-2014 8:53 AM Faith has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 456 of 1309 (727838)
05-21-2014 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:29 PM


Re: evidence
Yea serves them right for being bigots.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 4:35 AM frako has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 457 of 1309 (727839)
05-21-2014 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by frako
05-21-2014 4:28 AM


Re: evidence
Exactly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 4:28 AM frako has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 458 of 1309 (727840)
05-21-2014 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 455 by Faith
05-21-2014 4:21 AM


Re: evidence
These are early cases, we're up to about the early 30s in Germany
The time and place where the church stood by as GAYS where being prosecuted made to wear pink triangles, gassed, and sent to labour camps?
I would have thought that was your kind of place, where you can just do what you want to people who dont agree with you.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 4:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 5:06 AM frako has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 459 of 1309 (727841)
05-21-2014 5:04 AM


evidence reviewed
Hey, I put this one up and this photographer WAS fined and the Supreme Court refused to hear the case:
US supreme court declines appeal of photographer who refused gay couple | US supreme court | The Guardian
Also the story about the bakery that I posted said that the business was forced to close, and here's that story told by someone else:
Sucuri WebSite Firewall - Access Denied
Were they fined? So far it doesn't say, though the other one said they could be. But the story shows the basic attitude toward Christians that is shared by all here at EvC. What a lovable bunch.
The Colorado baker wasn't fined but the court tried to force him to bake a wedding cake anyway. Last I heard he refused and is facing prison time.
Baker Faces Prison for Refusing to Bake Same-Sex Wedding Cake
Google isn't turning up any more recent stories which is frustrating.

Replies to this message:
 Message 473 by Theodoric, posted 05-21-2014 9:03 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 499 by Larni, posted 05-21-2014 7:33 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 460 of 1309 (727842)
05-21-2014 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by frako
05-21-2014 5:00 AM


Re: evidence
Of course you thought that. That's the evil propaganda you all believe here that is going to result in the persecution of Christians.
Same as calling us vermin and cockroaches.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 5:00 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 461 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 5:12 AM Faith has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 461 of 1309 (727843)
05-21-2014 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by Faith
05-21-2014 5:06 AM


Re: evidence
Whats the propaganda that they where not mistreated in germany?
Or that the christian priest dint have anything to do with it?
Or that you dont want to do the same to gays, common you are even offended that they got the same rights as everyone else the right to get married. If you where to put right-wing religious nuts in absolute power you would be doing the same thing to the gays in a month.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 5:06 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 462 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 5:19 AM frako has replied
 Message 463 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 5:22 AM frako has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 462 of 1309 (727844)
05-21-2014 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 461 by frako
05-21-2014 5:12 AM


Re: evidence
Ah priests. Yes, the Catholic Church promoted the persecution and killing of many. They promoted the Holocaust and they were behind the murders in the Croatian massacres. They are not Christians. They murder Christians,. That's what they did in the Inquisition, murdered 50 million Christians.
This time you are misidentifying the victims and the oppressors. All part of the propaganda.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 5:12 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by Larni, posted 05-21-2014 5:52 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 468 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 6:04 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 463 of 1309 (727845)
05-21-2014 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 461 by frako
05-21-2014 5:12 AM


Re: evidence
Christians leave gays alone. It's the gays who are trampling on the rights of Christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 5:12 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 464 by vimesey, posted 05-21-2014 5:39 AM Faith has replied
 Message 465 by Larni, posted 05-21-2014 5:45 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 469 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 6:20 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 470 by Straggler, posted 05-21-2014 7:25 AM Faith has not replied

vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(6)
Message 464 of 1309 (727846)
05-21-2014 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 463 by Faith
05-21-2014 5:22 AM


Re: evidence
Christians leave gays alone.
But you don't want to leave them alone. You want the right to discriminate against them. You want Christians to have the right to refuse gay people services, which they offer to straight people.
You may think that this form of discrimination is perfectly acceptable. Most folks disagree with you.
If gay marriage offends you, then you are perfectly at liberty not to marry another woman. You are perfectly at liberty to have those views. You are perfectly at liberty to practice a religion which does not permit gay marriage. It's just that society has said that it's wrong to act on those beliefs in a way which discriminates against someone who is (harmlessly) different from you.
We're not attacking your beliefs - we're telling people not to act in a shitty way towards their fellow human beings.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 5:22 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 1:12 PM vimesey has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 465 of 1309 (727847)
05-21-2014 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 463 by Faith
05-21-2014 5:22 AM


Re: evidence
How would you feel if a restaurant refused to serve you because they knew you were Christian?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 5:22 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by frako, posted 05-21-2014 6:02 AM Larni has not replied

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