Summations Only

Probably the same way he created other evils. I presume he spoke them into existence or something. So he created 'calamity' but he's not responsible for it? Is this like the trinity? Do I have to believe before I can understand?Besides - it is perfectly possible to create free agency without creating evil. I am incapable of flying to the moon, but I am still to be regarded as free. Why would I not be free if I was incapable of committing murder or rape? Numbers 15:32-36 Peace? When did that happen?Was it responsible for the love they showed Priscillian in 385?
Was it pursuit of peace that practising alternative religion was punishable by death in 451?
How about when the nobles enforced Christianity on peasants using armed men? Was the Bible responsible for that kind of love?
Was Charlemagne being peaceful when he ordered the Massacre of Verden in 782?
The general destruction of pagan property and holy places? Loving and peaceful?
The absence of freedom of speech and religion- love?
Was coercing Jews through torture and murder into converting in the 15th Century inspired by the loving and peaceful Bible?
How about when the Portuguese tortured Indians until they converted?And Peace? Actual peace? Are you kidding me? Where is this actual peace? Wars have been fought just as regularly, if not more so, since the Bible was put together. Satan is not responsible for suffering. Satan is doing that which he was created by God to do. God is responsible. Also, God created humanity. If humanity has a propensity to evil, God created that too. Your rephrasing makes your point less clear.

Instead of rendering them infertile (the trick he performed on Sarah in reverse) - he had to have them bloodily and painfully murdered, regardless of their character, because they had descended from giant evil rapist angels and were in danger of spreading their genes. Not that any of that is actually in the Bible - but making stuff up is par for the course I'm led to believe, and if some guy who made a youtube said it - that's as good as God himself speaking the words.You've convinced me. The all powerful master of the universe thinks that killing women and children is the only solution to errant genetic material. He couldn't....remove it with his will. He couldn't prevent them from reproducing. Nope. Being sliced open with a sword is obviously the only way to resolve this non-Biblical dilemma.Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

Is that even important? It is absolutely clear that Eve knew regardless of who told her.Seriously, I watch you make up stuff in your posts that is not said in the text, and the you duck and dodge to avoid the most obvious things. So when you say that man's actions brought sin into the world, you mean that in some way that does not include the serpent's deception which occurred prior to Eve's and Adam's actions.

Are you being serious? Fallen fucking angel genes?Are are you just jacking with us?

IT was important in the conversation with ringo as per her claim. I was showing that in the bible, you can interpret inferences into the story. I am surprised you didn't understand that point. I have not dodged anything. I have refuted all claims except 2 posts in 250's. The reason I have not responded to those yet is because they are timely. There are 2 new posts I am refuting as well. No. It does include the Serpent's deception. I may not have pointed that out in my post but in my mind I was including the Serpent. The Serpent is absolutely included in the reason for the fall.Edited by Blue, : No reason given.Edited by Blue, : Add

Yes, and then we watch you absolutely refuse to draw inferences that are pretty much unavoidable. Like the idea that we don't have to be told that the serpent was already up to no good before Adam and Eve sinned. Sigh.

You still don't know that he created evil. This a claim which has not been established as fact. What you have is an event and then an interpretation of that event. The event does not scream evil it screams interpret ME. I suppose you need to open your mind enough to see other vantages which will reveal other vantages. Point, punishing evil is not evil. Free agency is just that, do what the fuck you want to do, it would involve 0 limitations.The law is to guide you into heaven. I suppose since you don't like the law, or God it does not really matter. You will be fine dead. I think the most common thing I have heard from an atheist is, I am fine thinking I am dead in death. I presume you're the same? IF so why are we arguing? Ok. The counter argument is clearly, this does not refute the God of the Bible as a God. IT does clearly demonstrate how important it is to keep the Sabbath. The idea is to bring peace. War does bring peace. In my understanding, you need to remove evil, and through removing evil you bring peace. It is absolutely unheard of to appease everyone. The progressives try to appease everyone but this can only be done through law which as a result leads to tyranny. Think of it this way, if the Bible is in fact the word of God then the above is not so bad because it will bring you a life in eternity. This is what most people fail to realize. As much as I can appreciate your humanity, in general humanity is evil. IF you don't think humanity is evil even from an atheist vantage there is something wrong with you. I have been atheist before and the things I saw in humanity was evil. Again I will say, if religion is man made, then God is not the problem. However, in religion the goal is to bring peace. I can't speak for the evils people have done in the name of Christianity, Islam, Atheism and the like but in most cases it is not because of the Bible (can't speak for the quran don't care too either) per say it is their interpretation of it. Where is the peace? Peace will be in the new existence once free agency has lead man to God. No, Satan chose to be evil. God intended on satan to be a guardian angel. Ezekiel 28. Yes God new what satan would do but this does not mean it is God's fault. Further man chose evil in free agency as well. God's is responsible for creating free agency. The point I am making is if humanity created religion and God does not exist then the problem can't be religion. The problem is clearly humanity. Yes the Bible can seem cruel in some places, but it is reasonably cruel. Humanity is evil. What I find more interesting is that this point is made thousands of years ago, in Genesis 3. Hence why the Bible is a guide to heaven. IT is directly telling you humanity is evil and you need to follow certain laws. IF humanity simply followed those laws IT would bring PEACE. The problem is not the Bible, it is not God, the problem is CLEARLY humanity.Edited by Blue, : errEdited by Blue, : errEdited by Blue, : ErrEdited by Blue, : err

I have been trying to tell you that God created humanity, the angels, etc with the law of free agency. This meant they can do what the fuck they want to do... Yes God does have a law, but it is up to all of us to follow it.The next point is that God does not do pre-crime like in minority report. Even though God does know what choices we will make he will judge you in the action. This is why he will not do the opposite that he did to Abraham/Sarah.

I am not trying to convince you. In truth I just enjoy these discussions. However, I would suggest you look into it with an open mind. Especially now that you know that God does not do pre crime. No pun intended. You seem perfectly intelligent. I am just asking you, who seems to be versed, to look at it with an open mind. I doubt you will but at least I tried. On the other side of the coin, I learned something about the old testament (or maybe I forgot about that verse, skipped it when reading it, dunno. I have read it a few times) I didn't realize it was that important to rest on the Sabbath. Now you are thinking, idiot I was not trying to teach you about the old testament I was trying to teach you about how the God of the bible is false. FYI: I got that message too, I just disagree with you.

I am absolutely dinosaur serious. What is so hard to believe that the God of the Bible, created everything including humanity and angels. Then later they decided to choose evil which lead to angels and humanity procreating. You do realize there is like 90,000 years of humanity not accounted for in history, right? Further the history that we do have is so broken.Who would of thought dinosaurs were real 200 years ago? We are so used to our modern day reality with computers and high tech gadgets, cars, planes, science, etc that we fail to forget there was a long long long long long long long long long history and reality was probably much different in each age.

IT is arguable that the Serpent was up to no good before they sinned. I just don't think that is the case. There is nothing in the Bible except verse 1 of the fall pointing to it. Are we agreeing that the Serpent is satan?Edited by Blue, : edit

No one is trying to prove your god is not real. Only that the characteristics you ascribe to him conflict with what the bible states.

Xenophanes (570-480 BC) wrote about fossils. Rather more than 200 years. And what is this missing 90,000 years (the middle Stone Age characterised by Aterian technology)?

I think there are varying opinions on what people in this forum are doing. You maybe trying to argue that the God of the bible is different than my interpretation. However nobody here has successfully refuted/changed my thoughts except modulus with respect to sabbath day. What you and others here should realize is the bible does not state what you claim especially with respect to the whole context of chapters being debated. Another point, if you think I believe an atheist doesn't want to fit the God of the bible into a framework which does argue he doesn't exist you are crazy. There is most definitely an agenda in this forum for atheists to show God does not exist. This is the extreme being debated. I think it is important for you to realize everything is argumentative and there IS 2 arguments with varying implications here. I don't view the one being argued by the atheist community valid. Is that really a surprise? I mean I am a Christian and the other side is atheist (yes I do realize there maybe other christians). There is not a default to christians are wrong. It is a argument...

I think this is a trivially easy distinction to make. Living beings are not physically capable of flying to the moon, so accordingly no mental tinkering is necessary to disallow it. On the other hand, there is no physical reason why you have to love your neighbor as yourself, so when you choose to do so, you exhibit free will.