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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 331 of 1309 (727454)
05-18-2014 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by Faith
05-18-2014 11:12 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Gay marriage is a horrific violation of God's Law
Is it ? And even if it was, those bakers weren't being asked to marry somebody of the same sex, so they wouldn't be violating such a law even if there was one.
quote:
To do anything to support it is a horrific sin and violation of a Christian's conscience.
I hardly think that baking a cake for a gay wedding constitutes a horrific sin. And if you want to argue otherwise, then you need an actual argument.
quote:
Laws that support gay marriage must be disobeyed by Christians in these cases set up by provocateurs to force us to act against God.
In other words you put bigotry and hate before obedience to God. Well, that's your problem. Maybe you should be a real Christian and start repenting of your own sins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:28 AM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 332 of 1309 (727455)
05-18-2014 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by PaulK
05-18-2014 11:25 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
What you think is irrelevant. If a Christian's conscience is violated he must obey his conscience, not yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 11:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 11:44 AM Faith has replied

Modulous
Member (Idle past 1597 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 333 of 1309 (727458)
05-18-2014 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
05-18-2014 11:25 AM


Re: obedience
As I said, that is taken out of context.
Not really.
Obviously where there is no conflict with God's law we are to obey the secular law, but equally obviously where there is a conflict, in this case an egregiously direct conflict, we obey God and not man.
So was St Paul lying when he said 'The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good'? Should he have added 'unless you disagree with them'? Is that in a different version than I'm looking at?
Do you know better what God wants, than God who put those people in authority?
As I just quoted the apostles saying in answer to the Jewish authorities.
Oh, sorry. I didn't realize that Peter was more authoritative on God's will than Jesus. In any event, Peter was talking about obeying god over men. But I am talking about obeying God's servants, invested to do good by God.
Human law may call for the extermination of Jews. I m obliged to disobey that law.
But not by God, who may wish to exterminate the Jews (as he has wished before).
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:25 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 334 of 1309 (727461)
05-18-2014 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Faith
05-18-2014 11:28 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
What you think is irrelevant. If a Christian's conscience is violated he must obey his conscience, not yours.
By which you mean that in your "Christian" opinion, bigotry is more important than following the law - as Romans 13 commands.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:28 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 12:43 PM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 335 of 1309 (727468)
05-18-2014 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by PaulK
05-18-2014 11:44 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Well, you know, you can always have us fined for our "bigotry," that's the point of this whole set-up, that your opinion be allowed to trump ours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 11:44 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 1:11 PM Faith has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 336 of 1309 (727471)
05-18-2014 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Faith
05-18-2014 12:43 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Well, you know, you can always have us fined for our "bigotry," that's the point of this whole set-up, that your opinion be allowed to trump ours.
Well, now it's just your opinion. I would think that in matters of "horrific sin" God would offer rather more guidance than ignorant opinions of bigots who don't even understand the purpose of the law they're refusing to follow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 12:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:22 PM PaulK has replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 337 of 1309 (727472)
05-18-2014 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
05-18-2014 11:25 AM


Re: obedience
Funny how it's in context when it agrees with you and out of context when it does not.
I suppose leviticus 20:13 is out of loving gay people context of leviticus, in general?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:25 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 1:27 PM Larni has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 338 of 1309 (727474)
05-18-2014 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by PaulK
05-18-2014 1:11 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
You set it up to be a matter of opinion, not I. Your opinion of what the Bible means being completely different from mine. No more freedom of opinion is the point. I can be fined for mine. I think this is how it started in Nazi Germany too. Gradual diminishment of citizens' rights for those targeted by the powers that be. You're on the right side though, you can be happy when the Christians, nasty evil bigots, haters and hypocrites we are, get our just desserts. Oh and we're cockroaches and vermin too, subhuman like the Jews and the Slavs and the Tutsis.
You can also join the gay rights people in throwing bricks through the windows of Christian businesses, I'm sure that's coming eventually.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 1:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 1:52 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 344 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 2:07 PM Faith has replied
 Message 345 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 2:12 PM Faith has replied

Modulous
Member (Idle past 1597 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 339 of 1309 (727475)
05-18-2014 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Larni
05-18-2014 1:12 PM


Re: obedience
Funny how it's in context when it agrees with you and out of context when it does not.
Indeed, I find it equally amusing that the correct and full context for Paul's letter to the Church in Rome when talking about the people that decide and enforce an empires/nation's/city-state's laws is a spontaneous speech act by Peter about people who don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 1:12 PM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:35 PM Modulous has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 937 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 340 of 1309 (727476)
05-18-2014 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Modulous
05-18-2014 1:27 PM


Re: obedience
Rome thanks you. When the Christians refuse to worship the next Caesar to come down the pike calling himself god, disobeying a law required of all of us, you can be comfortable in your conscience as you genuflect while we disobeyers of the law are rightly treated as the criminals we are.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 1:27 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 1:41 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 342 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 1:51 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 341 of 1309 (727478)
05-18-2014 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by Faith
05-18-2014 1:35 PM


Re: obedience
Which Caesar is this?
Please don't say Obama.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:35 PM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member (Idle past 1597 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 342 of 1309 (727479)
05-18-2014 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by Faith
05-18-2014 1:35 PM


Re: obedience
Rome thanks you. When the Christians refuse to worship the next Caesar to come down the pike calling himself god, disobeying a law required of all of us, you can be comfortable in your conscience as you genuflect while we disobeyers of the law are rightly treated as the criminals we are.
When I disobey an immoral law, it doesn't put me at odds with my moral framework.
When you do, it does. I guess you need to choose between doing the right thing, and following Jesus' instructions. I'm glad to hear that in at least some circumstances you'd do the right thing. It's just a shame you can't be consistent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:35 PM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member (Idle past 1597 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(3)
Message 343 of 1309 (727480)
05-18-2014 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Faith
05-18-2014 1:22 PM


nazis forcing Germans to be nice to gays
No more freedom of opinion is the point. I can be fined for mine.
Funny, I don't hear you complaining that I can be fined for firing someone because they are Christian, or not hiring someone because they are black or refusing to serve Jews.
. I think this is how it started in Nazi Germany too. Gradual diminishment of citizens' rights for those targeted by the powers that be.
Yeah, in Nazi Germany there were laws that meant you were forced to serve customers who were Jewish and homosexual. What was it Hitler said about homosexuals?
"the homosexual must be served!"
Remember the Night of the Long Chives? Ernst Rohm won't forget it. The night when Germans took to the streets and gave homosexuals lots of food products they had prepared.
You're on the right side though, you can be happy when the Christians, nasty evil bigots, haters and hypocrites we are, get our just desserts. Oh and we're cockroaches and vermin too, subhuman like the Jews and the Slavs and the Tutsis.
Oh, poor you! It turns out that persecuting black people is unpopular and will make sure people stop associating with you while calling you a bigot and a hater. Awww, poor racist Faith.
Oh wait. I mean gay people. And homophobic. Well, you get the idea.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:22 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 344 of 1309 (727481)
05-18-2014 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Faith
05-18-2014 1:22 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
You're on the right side though, you can be happy when the Christians, nasty evil bigots, haters and hypocrites we are, get our just desserts.
Which is a good thing.
People should be punished for their unacceptable behaviour. You place yourself on the wrong side of the law and society by your behaviour and then you complain?
The values you cleave to are no longer acceptable behaviour in society. Just like calling black people 'boy' and a husband forcing his wife to have sex against her wishes.
Either you adapt you behaviour of society will sanction you. That is the reality. No one falls for the martyr card these days.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 2:23 PM Larni has not replied
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 2:35 PM Larni has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 345 of 1309 (727482)
05-18-2014 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Faith
05-18-2014 1:22 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
You set it up to be a matter of opinion, not I
I think not. In the absence of anything objective - and you've refused to provide anything - then you were relying on opinion from the start.
quote:
Your opinion of what the Bible means being completely different from mine.
Which is why you can't find the Biblical support for your position ?
quote:
No more freedom of opinion is the point.
You seem to miss the point that the law penalises ACTIONS not opinions.
quote:
I can be fined for mine
No, you can be fined for breaking the law. Having an opinion is not against the law.
quote:
I think this is how it started in Nazi Germany too. Gradual diminishment of citizens' rights for those targeted by the powers that be.
Actually it started with bigots persecuting minorities. Like Jews - and gays.
quote:
You're on the right side though, you can be happy when the Christians, nasty evil bigots, haters and hypocrites we are, get our just desserts. Oh and we're cockroaches and vermin too, subhuman like the Jews and the Slavs and the Tutsis.
Just your usual bullying, whining, lying and slandering your opponents. In reality the law is there to FIGHT that sort of persecution. Maybe that's the reason why you oppose it.
quote:
You can also join the gay rights people in throwing bricks through the windows of Christian businesses, I'm sure that's coming eventually.
It's more likely to be "Christians" throwing bricks through the windows of gay businesses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 1:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 3:06 PM PaulK has replied

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