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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 316 of 1309 (727359)
05-17-2014 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by New Cat's Eye
05-17-2014 4:04 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
I knew you could do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-17-2014 4:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-17-2014 4:57 PM Faith has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 317 of 1309 (727372)
05-17-2014 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by Faith
05-17-2014 4:13 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
I knew you were a hypocrite who just doesn't like gay people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Faith, posted 05-17-2014 4:13 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 318 of 1309 (727373)
05-17-2014 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by Faith
05-17-2014 4:02 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Faith, do YOU personally believe the gaywise are abhorrent or is that position derived from your faith (as I recall you saying that you were once an atheist)?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by Faith, posted 05-17-2014 4:02 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17394
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 319 of 1309 (727420)
05-18-2014 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by Faith
05-17-2014 3:49 PM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
I agree so I would limit the heterosexual weddings too.
I've got to admit that I was pleasantly surprised to see you agreeing with the Gospels. I expected you to damn it as a Catholic doctrine (since Protestant churches in general do NOT follow it), and drag up commentaries that disagree.
But that really raises the question of why people who are happy to have their Churches perform equally sinful marriages are so obsessed with gay marriage and homosexuality in general. I would not be surprised if the bakers in question would be happy to knowingly bake a cake for such a wedding (unless they're Catholic, and even then they might).
And given that the arguments against gay marriage are riddled with dishonesty, it' shard for me to see the opposition as having any moral basis at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Faith, posted 05-17-2014 3:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 9:59 AM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 320 of 1309 (727431)
05-18-2014 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by PaulK
05-18-2014 4:25 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
I agree that Protestant churches aren't strict enough about what Jesus and in fact scripture elsewhere says about remarriage. I've heard rationalizing sermons that are very disappointing. I also think that Christians should be a lot stricter about every kind of sexual sin that has been casually practiced in western society over the last half century or so. Scripture condemns it ALL and it all erodes the moral basis of the culture.
How this all plays out in the bakery, however, depends on whether the baker's conscience is engaged in conspiring to support a sinful act, and our conscience only condemns what we believe to be sinful, so those who don't think remarriage is sinful won't have their conscience engaged even if they are aware of the particulars.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 4:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 10:21 AM Faith has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17394
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 321 of 1309 (727432)
05-18-2014 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by Faith
05-18-2014 9:59 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
But it's not just that they happen to ignore it. To focus on other people' skins while neglecting your own is not a Christian attitude at all. And yet this is exactly what we see in the fuss over gay marriage. Even without the many lies it would be a bad state of affairs.
quote:
How this all plays out in the bakery, however, depends on whether the baker's conscience is engaged in conspiring to support a sinful act, and our conscience only condemns what we believe to be sinful, so those who don't think remarriage is sinful won't have their conscience engaged even if they are aware of the particulars.
Doing an honest and legal job for hire hardly constitutes conspiracy. And agan, as the verses you quoted from Romans state Christians should obey the civil authorities, too. From a Biblical perspective those bakers were sinning more in their refusal than in actually doing the work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 9:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 10:52 AM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 322 of 1309 (727435)
05-18-2014 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by PaulK
05-18-2014 10:21 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
So sorry, we are not to support any law that violates God's law, we are obliged to refuse to obey it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 10:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 10:59 AM Faith has replied
 Message 325 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 11:02 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 327 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 11:12 AM Faith has replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 323 of 1309 (727437)
05-18-2014 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by Faith
05-18-2014 10:52 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Your bible disagrees with you.
Romans 13:1-7 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Seems pretty clear to me: for your conscience to be clear you have to obey the secular law.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 10:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:00 AM Larni has not replied
 Message 326 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:12 AM Larni has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 324 of 1309 (727438)
05-18-2014 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by Larni
05-18-2014 10:59 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Sorry, you have that out of context. We are to obey God when there is a conflict with worldly law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 10:59 AM Larni has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17394
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 325 of 1309 (727441)
05-18-2014 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by Faith
05-18-2014 10:52 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
That clearly doesn't apply as I have already argued - without any rebuttal on your part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 10:52 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 326 of 1309 (727445)
05-18-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by Larni
05-18-2014 10:59 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Acts 5:28-29 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Gay marriage is a horrific violation of God's Law. To do anything to support it is a horrific sin and violation of a Christian's conscience. Laws that support gay marriage must be disobeyed by Christians in these cases set up by provocateurs to try to force us to act against God.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 10:59 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2014 11:25 AM Faith has replied

Modulous
Member (Idle past 1590 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 327 of 1309 (727446)
05-18-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by Faith
05-18-2014 10:52 AM


Obeying all law is Christian
So sorry, we are not to support any law that violates God's law, we are obliged to refuse to obey it.
I guess that explains why US Christians are always protesting the Declaration of Independence. (Romans 13:1-5)
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 10:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:14 AM Modulous has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 328 of 1309 (727447)
05-18-2014 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 327 by Modulous
05-18-2014 11:12 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
Aw, you still miss us?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 11:12 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 11:16 AM Faith has replied

Modulous
Member (Idle past 1590 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 329 of 1309 (727449)
05-18-2014 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by Faith
05-18-2014 11:14 AM


obedience
How regularly do you ignore St Paul, who gained his revelation direct from Jesus?
If the law says gays can marry
That means the law was effected by the authorities.
The authorities were instituted by God.
Therefore God says gays can marry.
But you know better than God, I assume?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:14 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 05-18-2014 11:25 AM Modulous has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 931 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 330 of 1309 (727453)
05-18-2014 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 329 by Modulous
05-18-2014 11:16 AM


Re: obedience
As I said, that is taken out of context. You have to read the Bible in its own context. Obviously where there is no conflict with God's law we are to obey the secular law, but equally obviously where there is a conflict, in this case an egregiously direct conflict, we obey God and not man. As I just quoted the apostles saying in answer to the Jewish authorities.
Human law may call for the extermination of Jews. I m obliged to disobey that law.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 11:16 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 11:34 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 337 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 1:12 PM Faith has not replied

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