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Author | Topic: What if Jesus and Satan were real? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There's no mystery why some think differently from others. The ones who wish God had their backs are ignoring the evidence, which plainly shows that He doesn't. They even go so far as to make excuses for Him: "You can't tempt God." That's right; you can't tempt Him to have your back.
Technically, this would not support evidence, but it would explain why some think different from others.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm talking about the people who do ask God for directions and don't get any - or get bad ones. You know very well that God doesn't give you what you ask for most of the time. So how can you say He has your back?
This is where so many people make a wrong turn and fail to ask for directions. Phat writes:
It's not an assumption; it's a conclusion based in the evidence. You can't rely on God to do it for you. Even Noah had to build his own ark.
They assume that in this vast universe---for now---humanity and human wisdom---relying on each other----is all we have.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So He only gives us what we want when we want what He wants to give us? He only begins to give us the desires of our heart once our heart is transformed...by Him....and we no longer live for ourselves but for Him. That's what I've been saying: He doesn't have our backs; He has His own.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So He says.
Communion is better for all of us. Phat writes:
How is doing whatever He wants not selfish?
He is not selfish about it. Phat writes:
Oxymoron. We ask; if He wants us to have it, He gives. There's nothing"joint" about it; it's totally one-sided. We ask for it. Its a joint decision. When you don't get what you want, you comfort yourself by saying you didn't really, really, really want it anyway. Sour grapes.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Blue writes:
Where does it state that God (God of the bible) created evil?quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Yes, that's the standard apologetics. I would conclude that what is meant by evil in the KJV, or ra' in the original language is "calamity" due to the context of the prior and following verses. Note the context though that God intends to use Cyrus as the human instrument of "mere punishment" against Babylon. From God's viewpoint and Israel's viewpoint, Babylon is evil and Cyrus is good but from Babylon's viewpoint, Cyrus is evil. Calamity is in the eye of the beholder.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
How do you know you can trust God?
Personally I would listen to GOD as to what is evil. Blue writes:
Yes, let's.
... lets review history.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
St. Paul said that man can decide:
Can man decide what is evil, or should god decide what is evil?quote: Blue writes:
Morality is what is written on our hearts. The question is: Who does the writing? God or society?
IF your answer is man should be the decision maker, then what is morality?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
That's a glib answer but it doesn't work. Why would you pray to a god unless you thought you could trust him?
ringo writes:
You learn to trust God via prayer/revelation. How do you know you can trust God
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
What Romans 2:14-15 says quite plainly is that man can and does decide what is evil, based on his conscience. That's what you asked.
Weather or not the law is in their hearts is just a point that even gentiles will follow the law not knowing it persay.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
How do you know that gravity isn't caused by Satan trying to drag us down into Hell? How do you know whom the revelation is from?
You know how gravity works right? This does not mean you know the theory, it just means you understand how gravity works. This is the same for revelations.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
That's exactly the point. You don't have any information from outside the Bible. Your ideas about Satan are entirely subjective whereas our ideas about gravity are objective.
We don't have any information, as far as I know, from the Bible or otherwise that is suggestive Satan is responsible for gravity.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Well, trust is often based on past performance. If you trust your wife not to cheat on you it's because he hasn't cheated on you before. You do realize trust is always based on faith. Can you trust God to give you what you want because He's always given you what you wanted before? Most likely not. God has a track record of doing exactly what He wants to do without regard to your wishes.
Blue writes:
I'm glad you use the phrase "merely faith". There may be hope for you yet. I have a low opinion of faith too.
The idea that your observations give you security is merely faith. Blue writes:
Again, that's exactly the point. What if your interpretation of the observation/revelation is wrong? What if Satan is really the good guy?
What if the interpretation of the observations is wrong?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
Yes, we decide what is evil - and if God or some other alien entity "judges" us, then we decide whether the judgement is evil or not.
I interpret it to read, we will decide what is evil and we will be judged regardless of what we decide.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Blue writes:
What makes you think I want eternal life under God's terms?
Remember God is going to grant you eternal life in a existence that God is creating. Blue writes:
I am.
I was not saying faith is a negative or a unreliable practice. Blue writes:
How do you know the "satanic books" aren't sponsored by God to make Satan look bad?
The argument that Satan could be the person answering my prayers does not make sense especially if you read any satanic book. Blue writes:
I asked you, "What if Satan is really the good guy?" It's (suppsedly) God who's "revealing" to you that Jesus is His son. If God is the bad guy then that revelation is likely to be false.
Why would Satan teach via revelation that Jesus is the son of God? Blue writes:
Where did I say that Satan was answering your prayers? I thought my point was that nobody is answering your prayers.
Your thoughts that Satan is answering my prayers would make sense if the revelations didn't occur. Blue writes:
Likely to be false, yes. Every religion has its own faith-baed claims and its own revelations. They don't all agree so at least some of them must be false. Yours are just as likely to be false as anybody else's.
It seems as if you are arguing that faith based claims are unreliable and therefor false. Blue writes:
The difference is that science is self-correcting; it is always changing its picture of reality. Religion, on the other hand, is notoriously resistant to change.
What is real in Science is not always REAL just like what is real in revelation is not always REAL. Blue writes:
So we've come full circle. Where did evil come from in the first place? What exists that God did not create?
When God's plan is complete Evil will be blotted out.
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