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Author Topic:   If our sun is second or third generation, does this not conflict with Genesis ?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 208 of 231 (726050)
05-06-2014 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Blue
05-05-2014 11:28 PM


Re: Creation of light
quote:
Genesis 1:1 is creation of the universe, which includes all matter/energy, space and time. This can be described in gravitation theories like bb, or any theories revolving creation of all material, space and time.
That's an assumption, rather it seems to be summing up the following verses - which certainly do not describe the creation of the universe as we know it.
quote:
Genesis 1:2 The spirit of God is in the earth and darkness covers the earth, after it was created. We don't know much about the creation of the earth except that it was created with the universe. I would presume the darkness was carbon dioxide, methane, etc filling the atmosphere as is shown in Science.
In fact we know that the Earth came into existence about 4.5 billion years ago, a LONG time after the Big Bang (about 13.5 billion years ago). In fact this is closely related to the point of the post that you are supposedly replying to.
I have no idea why you think that "darkness" would mean the atmosphere either. And you don't mention the references to the ocean (which seems to be the Primordial Ocean, common to Middle Eastern mythologies).
quote:
Genesis 1:3 is when light penetrated the atmosphere for the first time here on earth. Later verses that discuss creation of the stars, lights, etc are mere past tense grammatically.
Where does it mention light penetrating the atmosphere ? Where is the suggestion that light existed prior to this point ? And why do you decide that the "darkness" in this verse is completely different from that in the preceding verse ?
In fact this verse seems to refer to the establishment of the day-night cycle, as verse 5 clearly states that the separated light is "day" and the darkness "night".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Blue, posted 05-05-2014 11:28 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 3:07 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 212 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 3:41 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 211 of 231 (726110)
05-06-2014 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Blue
05-06-2014 3:07 PM


Re: Creation of light
quote:
It is not an assumption that Genesis 1:1 is describing creation of the universe and earth which includes all matter energy, space and time.
Oh, it certainly is, and a not very plausible assumption at that. If Genesis 1:1 describes anything specific it's more likely splitting the Primordial Ocean and creating a roof too keep the upper waters out (verses 6-8) and clearing the water from the land (verses 9-10). Explicitly labelled as Heaven and Earth.
quote:
If the verse is true, then that is where all things root. It makes a prediction that we will not find a origin of the universe that is contradictory. Science is still yet to prove it wrong.
Sure, we can't prove that there isn't a solid roof keeping the waters above the Earth out. Really ? And didn't you claim that the story claims that the Earth is as old as the universe ? Which we know to be false based on - among other things - the evidence in the post you were replying to !
quote:
I also find it interesting that this is the only creation story in history that mentions creation of space and time
Of course it doesn't. You just assume that it means that. For no good reason. Ignoring the comparatively tiny geocentric universe that the text does describe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 3:07 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 3:43 PM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 215 of 231 (726124)
05-06-2014 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Blue
05-06-2014 3:41 PM


Re: Creation of light
The preceding falsehoods have already been dealt with so I'll jump in here.
quote:
I also don't think it is definitive that verse 1 is a summation
Since we have a creation of Heaven and of Earth in later verses it looks pretty definite to me. And the Heaven and Earth there aren't what you say.
quote:
also don't think it is definitive that verse 1 is a summation. This is just an argument, and it fits a specific vantage. The argument I am presenting is a different vantage of the chapter and it argues a completely different way of looking at it. When you look at them side by side, what I am arguing is much more plausible. Especially since it agrees with Science
I don't think that your ideas about what the text should be are a plausible basis for a good interpretation. Let alone better than the actual text.
quote:
If we are to test scripture we should look at science and biblical thought, and find a good interpretation of them both.
Unless your idea of "good interpretation" is one that fits what you want, over and above the text then you aren't even making an attempt to do that.
quote:
This is a way of reconciling scripture and showing that it is actually perfect.
More like ignoring scripture and pretending that it is "perfect".
quote:
God does not have to communicate all things if he does not want to communicate all things. God communicated what God intended to communicate.
By which you mean that God has to do what you want him to have done. And since He didn't, you have to pretend that He did.
Genesis 1 was written for the exiles in Babylon, not for a modern scientifically literate population. It shows no intention of representing modern science, the scale of space and time is hopelessly compressed by that standard. The sky is blue because it's full of water, with a roof keeping it up there. The stars are just lights in the sky put there for the benefit of human timekeeping.
Exalt yourself by misrepresenting scripture all you want, but don't think that you're fooling anyone.
Well there's a lot more but it's all the same confusion of what you want the Bible to say with what it actually says.
quote:
What I find interesting is the order, it is perfect.
But it isn't. The primordial Earth was dry, with water coming from space, and so far as we know never completely covered in water. Birds came after land animals, so did whales. In fact the text doesn't make any distinction between ancient and modern life in it's ordering, making the order not even wrong, too far from the truth to be even a simple error.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 3:41 PM Blue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 6:04 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 224 of 231 (726156)
05-06-2014 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Blue
05-06-2014 6:04 PM


Re: Creation of light
A major case of projection there.
Tell me why the heaven of Genesis 1:1 can't be the Heaven of Genesis 1:8, other than your assumption that they are different.
Tell me why the order is perfect when it puts ocean before dry land, land plants before sea life, birds before land animals - all of them wrong.
Tell me where it explicitly refers to the creation of time or space. Not where you interpret it as meaning that - but where it explicitly says so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 6:04 PM Blue has not replied

  
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