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Author Topic:   Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 167 of 206 (725587)
04-28-2014 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
04-27-2014 9:58 AM


Re: science versus mental conjuring
Let me add something.
The primary difference between geology and chemistry is that we cannot always control all of the variables we would like. But hypothesis testing in the two disciplines is more alike than different. Geology is not just making up stories the way astrologist make up myths to match constellations. There is also working out the consequences of those hypothesis and looking for evidence that the worked out consequences are correct, and then verifying that things that the hypothesis denies are also absent. Those endeavors separate science from story telling. And there is no question that geologist do those activities.
It is quite easy to invalidate hydraulic Flood sorting using those methods because that guess cannot explain fossils of animals that have similar hydraulic properties are not being together. And of course you cannot gather more evidence or look under new rocks from your armchair.
And of course we can test whether heat and pressure can have effect Z on rock in a laboratory.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Percy, posted 04-27-2014 9:58 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 181 of 206 (725648)
04-30-2014 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
04-30-2014 12:18 AM


Re: science versus mental conjuring
Experimental science and observational science are basiclaly the same thing. Astronomy IS an observational science, but historical geology is not. The planets and stars move in relation to each other and in relation to Earth, observations over time can tell you all kinds of things about them. In the case of historical geology you have a stack of inert sediments that just lie there, and their fossil contents are dead and motionless.
You are going to have to do a bit better than that to come up with a false dichotomy that cannot be seen through in about two seconds (if that)
The earth is active tectonically and geologically. It is not dead like the moon. And just as we can observe the planets in motion, we can observe geological processes in action here on earth, right now. And that knowledge informs our understanding of the motion of the tectonic plates, of how sedimentary layers form, how erosion works, what water does and does not do.
In fact, every branch of natural science has both an observational component and an active experimental component. We use both of those pieces to generate information. The scientific method is what we use to evaluate data and to form, verify and reject hypothesis. In fact just as we can think of advantages that we can use to study astronomy, geologists can work with the fact that traces of the past are left on the earth, while the tracks of stars through the universe do not always leave traces.
Your attempt to brand branches of science that you do not like, and only pretend to comprehend is interesting because it tells us something about the way you think. But as far as being convincing or informative about science. Nope.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 04-30-2014 12:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 05-03-2014 11:15 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 206 (725748)
05-01-2014 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by RAZD
04-18-2014 8:45 AM


Re: Inner Fish / Inner Reptile
Curiously I am finding this series much more interesting than Cosmos, perhaps because my interest is more in evolution and biology than in physics and astronomy.
Nothing wrong with that.
It seems to me that the Cosmos episodes have some balance between being life science based and being physics based, although there is definitely more physics than biology.
And thanks to technology we don't have to choose regardless of what the schedulers think!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by RAZD, posted 04-18-2014 8:45 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 206 (725749)
05-01-2014 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by PaulK
04-30-2014 2:05 AM


Re: science versus mental conjuring
Faith writes:
and that the different races of the same Species simply got buried at different levels.
PaulK writes:
Well that's an obvious fantasy. If the strata were all produced in a single year - and a lot of life died in the early stages anyway - then there isn't a lot of time for microevolution.
Not to mention that we still need some explanation for the different levels. In this paragraph of Faith's we are actually witnessing denial in action. The denial is right there in the word 'simply'.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by PaulK, posted 04-30-2014 2:05 AM PaulK has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 206 (725907)
05-03-2014 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Percy
05-03-2014 8:35 AM


Re: science versus mental conjuring
going to need some evidence and some scientific rationale
That's way too high a standard. How about just 'my post is going to be read by professionals and I don't want to look like a blooming idiot'. Or 'someone is likely to check my facts so I should not just make up crap and call it truth.' Or even, 'my posts from yesterday are still available so I cannot get away with lying about them.'
Faith does not accord any of us the respect due any human being. She does not care about anything other than her own point.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Percy, posted 05-03-2014 8:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 191 of 206 (725922)
05-04-2014 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
05-03-2014 11:15 PM


Re: science versus mental conjuring
And I've just as often contrasted historical science with observational science as with experimental science
I remember quite a few of the dumbass things you say.
I take your post as meaning that you are absolutely clueless about how it is possible to do anything more than guess about how the grand canyon is formed. Accordingly, your own attempts must be complete nonsense, since it is in your mind impossible to do otherwise.
On the other hand, your misconceptions and lack of knowledge are not extended to geologists. That is simply your projection of your personal idiocy on others.
I don't see a single other relevant thing in your post. It's full of blather based on your admitted ignorance. I assume you know yourself a little better than the grand canyon, but that's about it.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 05-03-2014 11:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 206 (725950)
05-04-2014 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by roxrkool
05-04-2014 5:12 PM


Re: science versus mental conjuring
The fact is, there are faults in the GC, but they have been obscured by gentle folding and more recent sedimentation. Evidence exists that suggests these faults
It appears to me from a quick search that plenty of stuff has been written about seismic activity in the Grand Canyon. If I had some idea that scientists were ignoring that possibility, I would probably look through those papers before spouting off about my idea, because I know that I have never undertaken a serious study of the subject.
That is not, of course how everyone does things. Some people think that if they've written about a topic on their own blog that they are an expert.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by roxrkool, posted 05-04-2014 5:12 PM roxrkool has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 194 of 206 (725959)
05-05-2014 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by RAZD
04-18-2014 8:45 AM


Latest Cosmos - Life science/evolution focus
Since you mentioned your preference for biology over physics, I thought you might appreciate knowing that episode 9 has more of a evolution/biology focus.
Also, despite not mentioning or focusing on it, Tyson shows us some fossil evidence that is difficult to explain using 'Flood physics' depositing layer(s) over a year.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by RAZD, posted 04-18-2014 8:45 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 206 (726857)
05-13-2014 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by roxrkool
05-05-2014 6:00 PM


Re: Newest Episode
This weeks episode is straight physics. It's primarily about the work of Michael Faraday and finishes off with a little bit of Maxwell and his mathematical formulation of Faraday's concepts.
As with last episodes story of Marie Tharp verifying Wegener's ideas, this episode describes the ridicule Faraday faced before Maxwell came along.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by roxrkool, posted 05-05-2014 6:00 PM roxrkool has not replied

  
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