Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Semiotic argument for ID
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 139 of 223 (725181)
04-24-2014 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:25 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
But then one would have to say that DNA is not complex, just as for example a string of beads of four different colors is not complex. There may be lots of them, but they lack a "very complicated or involved arrangement of parts".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:25 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 145 of 223 (725194)
04-24-2014 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Ed67
04-24-2014 4:20 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
A bit vague. Does a cockroach have specified complexity? Unlike DNA, it would fix your chosen definition of "complex", but what is its special application?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 4:20 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 146 of 223 (725195)
04-24-2014 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Ed67
04-24-2014 4:25 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
I'd say number 2 applies here; it's factual data, and it's communicated to the cell by the nucleotide code.
Now you're really reaching.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 4:25 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 147 of 223 (725196)
04-24-2014 4:49 PM


CSI Redux
OK, armed with these definitions let's go back to our man in the street and ask him whether "AGTCGATGCTAGTTTGCA" is an example of complex specified information.
* Is it information? Apparently not --- what "factual data" does it contain? It is not, on the face of it, a statement of the height of Mount Rushmore or the average weight of a rabbit.
* Is it specified? Well, that depends, we now know, on whether it has a "special application". So it might be specified, if, for example, it was my email password.
* Is it complex? No, since it is not "characterized by a very complicated or involved arrangement of parts".
This is progress, of a sort, but possibly not in the direction you want to go.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 156 of 223 (725214)
04-24-2014 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Ed67
04-24-2014 6:07 PM


Ed's Long Hopeless Struggle With The English Language Continues
James Watson and Francis Crick's insight that genetic INFORMATION is embedded in the physical structure of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA)
That is using a different definition of information. I assumed you wanted us to use yours.
Watson and Crick were the first to realize that the seemingly random sequence of the four bases in DNA formed a code which specified the order of the twenty amino acids that make up most proteins
A sentence using the word "specified" and "DNA" in the same sentence does not bear out your point, any more than the sentence "John saw the blue flower" would substantiate a claim that John was blue, or a flower.
The "genetic code" does indeed specify which DNA codons cause which amino acids to be added to the chain. This has nothing to do with the question of whether (for example) my DNA is specified according to your definition of "specified" or indeed any other.
You are really not good at reading things, are you?
How about COMPLEX?
That one's easy. According to your definition, DNA is definitely not complex.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 6:07 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 158 of 223 (725216)
04-24-2014 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Ed67
04-24-2014 6:14 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
But it DOES have a very "complicated or involved' arrangement of "units" in the nucleotide sequence
No it doesn't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 6:14 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:45 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 166 of 223 (725230)
04-24-2014 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Ed67
04-24-2014 7:45 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
Go back to high school. This is REALLY basic stuff
You're not going to try to defend your claim? That's OK by me, I sha'n't press you for an actual signed notarized confession that you were talking bullshit. This will suffice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:45 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 167 of 223 (725233)
04-24-2014 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Ed67
04-24-2014 7:41 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
Or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:41 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 173 of 223 (725240)
04-24-2014 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:20 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
I think that qualifies as complex specified information.
Now if only you could define the term in such a way that this claim was both true and meaningful ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:20 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 174 of 223 (725241)
04-24-2014 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:11 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
So it's common knowledge among the scientifically literate that DNA is the medium through which a COMPLEX, SPECIFIED CODE conveys the instructions necessary to build and maintain an organism.
Though curiously enough the people you're quoting didn't actually use the phrase you've put in capitals, nor indeed two out of the three words in it. Perhaps they're not as "scientifically literate" as you ... or perhaps vice versa. Who can say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:11 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 8:13 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 178 of 223 (725277)
04-25-2014 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Ed67
04-25-2014 8:13 AM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
please see Message 170
I have seen it. It remains true that the people you quote in #168 didn't actually use the phrase you've put in capitals, nor indeed two out of the three words in it. Message #170 does not even dispute this fact and has no conceivable relevance to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 8:13 AM Ed67 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024