Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,921 Year: 4,178/9,624 Month: 1,049/974 Week: 8/368 Day: 8/11 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Smalll Businesses
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 14 of 69 (724068)
04-12-2014 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
04-10-2014 10:18 PM


In fact, communally-owned big businesses would theoretically not suffer from any of these problems...
Well id did work for a time in Yugoslavia, we had no homeless, the best healthcare, everybody had a job, any one could own a house ..... It was fun for as long as it lasted. sure we had a few problems like freedom of speech was limited you couldn't say anything against the country or the dictator. The policy for imprisoning was if a few innocents get locked up its a fair price to get the bad people locked up and stuff like that.
there where a few problems in the system that basically killed it, profit wasn't liked and if a company made profit it was divided among the workers severely decreasing the possibilities of growing companies. Then there was human nature in one of the big companies not fare from me workers would use Co2 to cool their finger then whack it with a hammer braking it without any pain but a lot of paid leave so they could other work at home. but the biggest problem was the country was made up of 6 ethnicities that dint like each other, and at least 3 religions that dint like each other, so when Tito died no enigmatic figure was left to hold it all together.
Now there are some things people don't expect but are really logical if you think about it in a system like that. with money not being such a factor in what you could buy there where shortages of stuff sometimes, like coffee or chocolate the simple reason being people bought them all up cause they could. In a capitalistic system the prices would just go up so the poor could not afford them.
But talk about downsizing Gra a big sawmill company back in Yugoslavia it employed over 1000 people, when it became a private company when Slovenia seceded it cut down to 150, it dint have much trouble paying a solid wage for a 1000 back then now most are on minimum wage, well except for the 3 bosses they dont know what to do with their money one of them has a stream ruining under a glass flore in his living room cause he liked it.
but my belief is that in its essence it was a better system the people where just not ready for it.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 04-10-2014 10:18 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Jon, posted 04-12-2014 2:44 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 19 of 69 (724113)
04-12-2014 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Jon
04-12-2014 2:44 PM


I don't really know what you are talking about. But I don't think what I've mentioned would necessarily lead to the outcomes you've detailed.
I was just providing an example of a system where companies where owned by everyone, and how that particular system worked.
First, there is no reason to limit the freedom of speech. And no reason to lock folks up either.
Well back then there was a good reason no a right reason mind you because i believe speech should always be free, but they needed to do it in order to stop any descent because as you might figure if you take from the rich and give to everyone there are some people not to happy about that. Especialy since the rich have connections, for example they took land from the church and so called nobility, they dint think it would be a good idea to leat them preach how they where wronged and everyone should band behind them.
Second, it's important to distinguish differently-derived profits. In my last post, I mentioned the increase in profits made possible by reducing employment upon the implementation of an alternate production process. These profits simply cannot be allowed to remain in the hands of the company owners. The effect of doing so is to concentrate wealth from the working class to the owning class; 'efficiencies' that simply concentrate wealth (and, in fact, do nothing else) are contrary to the interests of the public good and so no publicly controlled society (= democracy) should sensibly allow such.
Yea i think all this could be implemented with a income cap say everything above a million in private annual income is taxed at 100%
Finally, there is no reason why the price of highly-demanded goods should not increase as it already does in a typical supply-demand market system. In fact, I cannot see any way that prices could not increase unless being artificially controlled: as a good becomes more scarce, only those willing to pay more would win the bid to purchase it.
Well as i said profiteers where not liked back in the day in Yugoslavia, so increasing the price because of market demands, would increase your profit making sure you would have an inspector waiting at your door pretty soon. The system was basically set up so a poor mans income and a top rich mans income where at a ratio of 1:6 anything outside those parameters could get you in trouble. If i remember correctly my grandfather from my fathers side was imprisoned 3 times for profiteering . Couldent help himself we come from a region of hagglers.
A disgusting example of what happens when the gains from increased efficiency in labor are allowed to be concentrated.
Yea but it is what the capitalistic system stands for getting rich of the sweat and blood of others. Why should you pay for 850 extra workers when 150 do the job just fine in the end its all money out of your own pocket and we cant have that
But i think things will change during the next financial crisis, i hear there is a new housing bauble in the works, it shouldent take more then a few years do you think that this time people will still sing protest songs while the rich sip champagne and laugh at them

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Jon, posted 04-12-2014 2:44 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 04-12-2014 7:57 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 25 of 69 (724128)
04-13-2014 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jon
04-12-2014 7:57 PM


Does that seem right to you?
Nope.
But until the 99% rise up and kick the shit out of the 1% and especially out of the 0,1% we are stuck with this system.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 04-12-2014 7:57 PM Jon has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024