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Author | Topic: Unjust Deserts - Gar Alperovitz & Lew Daly | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Dillinger did that.
Its going out and doing what you need to do in order to obtain what you want.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Catholic Scientist writes:
Isn't that what the OP is advocating? Making it illegal to steal more than your share?
But since it was obtained illegally, the FBI hunted him down.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Well, you quoted this from the OP:
I didn't see any mention of making anything illegal.quote:Notice the word "injustice"? Doesn't changing injustice to justice suggest changing the law? I'm just saying that Dillinger used technology for his own ends in the same way that entrepreneurs use technology for their own ends. The only difference is a legal technicality.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
That may be a philosophical injustice but the OP talks about entitlement, which is a more concrete legal injustice.
Its an injustice that some poor kid had to be born into a starving family in Africa while I get to sit here eating cheese and grapes. Catholic Scientist writes:
It does if it's the first step in doing something about it. The intention of the OP (and the book) seems to be to increase awareness that the rich are not morally entitled to their riches even if they are legally entitled.
But sitting around calling it an injustice and saying the people who have obtained wealth don't deserve it doesn't really accomplish anything. Catholic Scientist writes:
Well, I'm trying to increase the awareness of the right-wing nuts on the forum.
Us sitting around discussing how unfair life is, is a waste of time.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Tell it to Lenin.
Considering that our lawmakers are controlled by the rich, I'm afraid you're on a fruitless endeavor.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why not?
If all of the wealth in the world were divided equally, the system wouldnt work. Phat writes:
From each according to his ability to each according to his need. A society that can't provide for the needs of its members is a dysfunctional society.
How do we go about determining what ones share is?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
People often confuse their own faults with "human nature".
Human nature just doesnt work that way. Phat writes:
It's a Jesus-ordained duty:
Society has no Karl Marx ordained right to redistribute wealth nor could it be done without provoking wars and violence.quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why not? They're our servants, aren't they? If we can eliminate segregation, why can't we eliminate poverty?
We would never get governments to follow Jesus mandates,however. Phat writes:
It didn't work back then because they couldn't vote Caesar out of office. If it doesn't work now, it's only because we don't do what we could.
It didnt work back then and it wont work now...
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you want to follow Jesus or not?
Would I really want to vote in a politician who would redistribute my lower middle class wage to reflect global poverty?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I'll quote it again:
...obedience is better than sacrifice...quote:Obedience and sacrifice are the same thing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The question is: Does Jesus expect it?
Its all well and good to quote Matthew and yes, I do believe that Jesus said it...but do you realistically expect someone--anyone--to sell everything they have and walk around helping people?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a myth. ... the wild, rebellious, and eternally free and feisty spirit of the Americans. People don't fight for privilege. They buy it - and they pay others to protect it for them.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Yes.
... there would be an army bought and paid for by the wealthy... Phat writes:
No. They'd clamour for more police protection but very few of them would actually do anything. Your average "feisty" American gun-owner might shoot at somebody taking his stuff - and kill his own children in the process - but you'll never see an "uprising of the masses".
... and there would be an uprising of the masses who---in America at least---own much less stuff than do the wealthy yet far more stuff than the average global citizen. Phat writes:
Who said anything about a world government?
... in any future scenario involving a world government ...
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The key word there is "collectively". Every now and then you'll see a cult like the Branch Davidians but fundamentalist wingnuts aren't near collective enough to mount anything resembling an If the christians ever collectively believed that one of their endtime scenarios was coming into play, they would fight."uprising of the masses".
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