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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 196 of 1309 (723120)
03-26-2014 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:07 PM


lokiare writes:
If you need more sources I'll be glad to comply. Its pretty hard to just run across one of these sources though because the billion dollar homosexual lobby actively fights against their publication.
Ok, so you're trying to convince yourself. Don't worry, you're not the first and I'm sure you won't be the last. Just a suggestion; you won't ever find true peace until you accept yourself for who you are and get past the self-loathing. Most here would be happy to help you in the process when you are ready.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:07 PM lokiare has not replied

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(1)
Message 197 of 1309 (723125)
03-27-2014 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:26 PM


Re: Research Studies
Hi, Lokiare.
Welcome to EvC!
lokiare writes:
In herd animals and pack animals the males fight to see if they can become the dominant one and only the best becomes the dominant one. It isn't that they don't try to breed, its that the dominant one keeps them from breeding by interruption, injury, or by eating the offspring.
You're painting with a broad brush here. Not all herd animals and pack animals are identical, and not all of them are dominated by "alpha males." Some are dominated by females. Some have no sex-based dominance relationships at all. Some animal social structures are non-linear: i.e., A is dominant over B, B is dominant over C, and C is dominant over A. Social dominance alone does not explain why not all individuals reproduce.
lokiare writes:
Bees are only fertilized once and then produce clones for the rest of their life.
This is also not accurate. Bees do not reproduce by cloning: clones are genetically identical to their parents, which bees are not. Queen bees do only have 1 mating flight, by they usually mate with several males during that time. Bees (and all other hymnopterous insects) are haplodiploid: fertilized eggs develop into females, while unfertilized eggs develop into males.
lokiare writes:
You'll find that the rates of homosexuals in animals is pretty similar to the rates of homosexuals in humans (2%-6% depending on the study you look at).
If the rate is as low as 2%, I would say that it's entirely possible that natural selection is acting against homosexuality.

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:26 PM lokiare has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 198 of 1309 (723127)
03-27-2014 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by AZPaul3
03-26-2014 4:23 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
christians could try to play nice with society.
Funny, Christianity was the basis of western society since the Reformation at least, up until very recently.
However, now that we're living in a pagan society we do our best to keep peace with it.
This is possible unless society takes an aggressive stand against our beliefs, as for instance happened in ancient Rome when they demanded that Christians worship Caesar and branded Christians "atheists" for refusing to worship the Roman pantheon of gods. As also happened throughout the Middle Ages in Europe when the Roman Church demanded that Bible believers give up the Bible and affirm the doctrine of transubstantiation. In the first case dissenting Christians were turned into torches to light Nero's gardens, and fed to the lions in the stadium and so on. In the second they were hunted and killed, tortured by an amazing variety of interestingly diabolical methods, burned at the stake and whatnot.
So, sure, if we are allowed to live peaceably we will live peaceably. But if society insists that we do things that violate our Biblical understanding, we'll have to take whatever punishment society requires of us.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by AZPaul3, posted 03-26-2014 4:23 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 199 of 1309 (723129)
03-27-2014 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by subbie
03-26-2014 4:53 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Just like Christians of the past had to adjust to societal acceptance of interracial marriage, ending slavery, women voting ...
Ah well. Interracial marriage is not opposed by Christian doctrine. Individual Christians opposing it are not acting on Christian doctrine but from their fallen minds.
Slavery was opposed BY Christians even if again some individual Christians rationalized it, not having freed their minds from the mentality of the pagan world. Christian DOCTRINE led them to oppose it while it is still practiced throughout the world in nonChristian societies.
Also, Christ liberated women from their oppressed condition in Jewish society and eventually, in the west at least, from the universal oppression in all societies that is the legacy of the Fall, by treating women with respect. Over time it was Christ's acceptance of women that led to women's rights in western societies, while again, women remained oppressed all over the nonChristian world and still are in many parts of it.
Being accused of these things as if they were a matter of Christian doctrine when it was Christian doctrine that was the only source of opposition to them is somewhat like being accused of atheism by the Romans. OUR society seems to be run by false propaganda these days, having lost any sense of history.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 1309 (723130)
03-27-2014 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by New Cat's Eye
03-26-2014 4:54 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Not that you care, but I'm not "whining" or even objecting, I'm stating simple facts in a completely objective manner, in the hope of correcting some misperceptions. Of course I know the effort is futile but we try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 4:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 201 of 1309 (723138)
03-27-2014 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
03-25-2014 5:43 AM


My mum is gay. Always was. Period.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 03-25-2014 5:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 202 of 1309 (723139)
03-27-2014 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by lokiare
03-25-2014 5:36 PM


Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.
If you can show where in the DSM-V it is I will give 10 to the Christian hate group of your choice.
And for someone to have too much 5HT it would be genetic, obviously.
I personally don't want to be subjected to things I don't like and I certainly don't want to be influences subconsciously by them.
You actually believe you could be influenced by the tele into being gay? The only way that could work is if you are gay and won't admit it.
You can't catch gay from the TV, young lady :rofl:
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 5:36 PM lokiare has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 203 of 1309 (723140)
03-27-2014 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Larni
03-27-2014 5:46 AM


My mum is gay. Always was. Period.
Even without knowing the context, thinking I don't know that gay people have children is really bizarre.
But here's the context again, or at least AZPaul's attempt to sort it out in Mesage 122 '
Posts previous to that one might also be informative. ABE Especially the ones where I'm reduced to screaming "idiots idiots idiots" because everybody is ignoring the context.
AZPaul is also good in 46 and 54 and 79.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Larni, posted 03-27-2014 5:46 AM Larni has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 204 of 1309 (723141)
03-27-2014 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
03-27-2014 3:17 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Ah well. Interracial marriage is not opposed by Christian doctrine. Individual Christians opposing it are not acting on Christian doctrine but from their fallen minds.
Yea they where not really Christian right sorry but you cant white wash Christian crimes against humanity like that.
Bans on interracial marriage where lifted do to being unconstitutional no christians needed. But christians did vigorussly defend those bans with quotes like:
"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
These types of marriages are "abominable," according to Virginia law. If allowed, they would "pollute" America.
and they stomped their bible too
Deuteronomy 7:3-4
New International Version (NIV)
3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.
Slavery was opposed BY Christians even if again some individual Christians rationalized it, not having freed their minds from the mentality of the pagan world. Christian DOCTRINE led them to oppose it while it is still practiced throughout the world in nonChristian societies.
Slavery was defended by Christians to the point of ware.
[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.
—Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America
... the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.
—Richard Furman, President, South Carolina Baptist Convention
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
How can you say the bible is against slavery when even Jesus told the slaves to obey their masters. And no you cant weasel out that slavery was different back then you could beat your slave to death just as long as he survives for a day or two. And the 7 year slave time does not apply to blacks because they where bought from naigoburing lands.
Also, Christ liberated women from their oppressed condition in Jewish society and eventually, in the west at least, from the universal oppression in all societies that is the legacy of the Fall, by treating women with respect. Over time it was Christ's acceptance of women that led to women's rights in western societies, while again, women remained oppressed all over the nonChristian world and still are in many parts of it.
yea sure it was the Christians, you sure they dint fight tooth and nail against women's rights.
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
(Colossians 3:18; cf. 1 Peter 3:1 and Ephesians 5:22)
... I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man...For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, foreasmuch as he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
(1 Corinthians 11:3 & 7-9)
Let your women keep silence in churches: for it is not permitted unto them; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also sayeth the law.
(1 Corinthians 14:34, c/f 1 Corinthians 11:3-9 & Timothy 2:11-12)
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
Titus 2:4-5
Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
Yea the bible really loves women's rights, and Christians had no qualms of quoting the bible to fight the women's rights movement every inch of the way.
Being accused of these things as if they were a matter of Christian doctrine when it was Christian doctrine that was the only source of opposition to them is somewhat like being accused of atheism by the Romans. OUR society seems to be run by false propaganda these days, having lost any sense of history.
Yea the propaganda is Christians are good so it is impossible for Christians to ever be for slavery. or against women's rights, or interracial marriage because that would be bad. And in 50 years time a another fundamentalist will arrive and say it was the Christians who supported gay marriage equality all the way its not supported in those pesky non Christian countries.
Christianity dint push any equal rights agendas secularism and reason did, religion did what it always does fight to keep the status quoe as changes can be dangerous to the flock count.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 6:32 AM frako has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 205 of 1309 (723142)
03-27-2014 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by frako
03-27-2014 6:31 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Believe it or not, all that fulminating rhetoric doesn't contradict a thing I said except the part about reason and secularity being the push for the changes which is utterly stupidly historically blind.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by frako, posted 03-27-2014 6:31 AM frako has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 206 of 1309 (723144)
03-27-2014 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
03-27-2014 2:57 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
So, sure, if we are allowed to live peaceably we will live peaceably. But if society insists that we do things that violate our Biblical understanding, we'll have to take whatever punishment society requires of us.
Society insists we, which means you, treat all members of this community with at least a minimum level of respect. That means stopping the hate rhetoric and stopping the push to dictate your creeds in the schools and through government onto the rest of a people that resist your dictatorship and do not believe as you do.
I know that this is hard for christians. For so many centuries you have been the masters of thought control ruling every facet of society as you deemed desirable. You have come to expect to exercise this power over all peoples and organs of society as your god given right destroying all opposition in the most brutal ways. Those days are no longer.
Secular society (which does not mean a non- or anti-religious society, but where hindu, jew, moslem, atheist, christian, peagan and all others share equally and come to joint accommodation) has determined minimum standards of conduct in the marketplace and in public in general. This now replaces your vaunted christian theocracy. Because of mainly christian opposition some classes of people must be declared protected by law in order for them to attain their minimum rights in society. Over vehement christian opposition, often violent, homosexuals are now becoming a class requiring such protections of the law.
We, The People, are making this determination as is our right.
In your churches and homes your bigotry is free to flourish. In public business, in public education, in popular governance, though you can speak it, write it and show it on signs, direct actions against others by your bigotry are no longer acceptable.
I would think that for a christian your standard of conduct would be far above the social minimum. No "you're going to burn in hell for eternity", no "I won't serve you because you're a queer" and no trying to brow beat, scare and threaten people into conversion. I thought leading by love, tolerance and respect, leading by example, were supposed to be the christian things to do. For a lot of christian cults this is, apparently, not the case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 2:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 7:44 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 221 by Larni, posted 03-27-2014 1:55 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 1309 (723146)
03-27-2014 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by AZPaul3
03-27-2014 6:59 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Rather off target on all of that AZ, but I'm sure you aren't going to see it.
If you've got a huge scimitar at my neck and tell me I won't lose my head if I just say that homosexuality isn't a sin and it's right for gays to marry I'll forfeit my head.
Society insists we, which means you, treat all members of this community with at least a minimum level of respect.
In my opinion no Christian here has expressed the slightest disrespect to homosexuals.
That means stopping the hate rhetoric and stopping the push to dictate your creeds in the schools and through government onto the rest of a people that resist your dictatorship and do not believe as you do.
In my opinion no Christian here has expressed anything remotely along the lines of "hate rhetoric" etc. Of course this WAS once a Christian nation and the public school curriculum was originally based on the Bible and the Westminster Catechism, and all the colonies had Christian standards built into their government and public policy and prayer was given at the opening and closing of public meetings and in the schools and so on and so forth. So in fact what has happened is that YOUR TEAM has imposed YOUR VIEWS on this once-Christian nation and we're just left protesting the coup that TOOK AWAY the Christian standards. But of course that's all under the bridge now, it's done and that's that so you feel free to revile and excoriate us for not sharing YOUR views.
I know that this is hard for christians. For so many centuries you have been the masters of thought control ruling every facet of society as you deemed desirable.
"Thought control." My my, you do love YOUR rhetoric, don't you? Kind of reminds me of some of the stuff they said against the Jews to justify getting rid of them. If they're characterized as evil then of course they are to be eliminated. Makes sense.
You have come to expect to exercise this power over all peoples and organs of society as your god given right destroying all opposition in the most brutal ways. Those days are no longer.
Secular society (which does not mean a non- or anti-religious society, but where hindu, jew, moslem, atheist, christian, peagan and all others share equally and come to joint accommodation) has determined minimum standards of conduct in the marketplace and in public in general. This now replaces your vaunted christian theocracy.
Where do you get this stuff? You know what's going to happen now that you're rid of us (and you ARE essentially rid of us, you've won, congratulations and all that) you MAY find out that some of the other religions you are giving free rein -- because you think all religion is the same, boy is that a delusion -- revive their own wars with each other here in the west which still go on in other parts of the world, Hindus attacking Muslims and vice versa and both attacking Christians (The Christians normally don't fight back). Muslims will eventually have the power to reestablish their code that gives them the right to execute wives and daughters for a breach of the family honor, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Inquisition gets reinstated as well. But these are things you can't possibly understand from your very odd position of confusion and historical blindness.
Because of mainly christian opposition some classes of people must be declared protected by law in order for them to attain their minimum rights in society. Over vehement christian opposition, often violent, homosexuals are now becoming a class requiring such protections of the law.
Uh huh, I know, which means that any Christian who dares call it sin or won't bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding, is likely to find himself the victim of a violent version of your hate rhetoric against us. Your words are scathing, AZ, but oddly you say WE are the ones with the "hate rhetoric?" Wow.
We, The People, are making this determination as is our right.
Right, a "we" that doesn't include any of "us" of course as you've defined us as the hated class.
In your churches and homes your bigotry is free to flourish. In public business, in public education, in popular governance, though you can speak it, write it and show it on signs, direct actions against others by your bigotry are no longer acceptable.
And by "direct actions" you mean calling sin sin and refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding I gather, I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. And "no longer acceptable" means what, we beg on the streets, we get spat on, we get beheaded? Pastors who preach that part of the Bible get thrown in jail? It's already happened though it hasn't yet stuck. But it will. What would you recommend to put us in our place and out of your offended sight?
I would think that for a christian your standard of conduct would be far above the social minimum. No "you're going to burn in hell for eternity", no "I won't serve you because you're a queer" and no trying to brow beat, scare and threaten people into conversion.
Oddly enough I haven't seen any such things as you describe here with your inflated rhetoric. I wonder if you're hallucinating out of your depths of hatred for us.
I thought leading by love, tolerance and respect, leading by example, were supposed to be the christian things to do. For a lot of christian cults this is, apparently, not the case.
Pretending there is no such thing as sin is not love; pretending there is no such thing as God's judgment for sin is not love; pretending that there is no such thing as Hell is not love; pretending that sinners can go on sinning without having to worry about any of that, which lulls people to sleep on the edge of the abyss when they need to be warned instead, is not love.
Just curious: Have you ever read Toqueville? ANY history?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by AZPaul3, posted 03-27-2014 6:59 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by vimesey, posted 03-27-2014 8:42 AM Faith has replied
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(5)
Message 208 of 1309 (723153)
03-27-2014 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
03-27-2014 7:44 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Pretending there is no such thing as sin is not love; pretending there is no such thing as God's judgment for sin is not love; pretending that there is no such thing as Hell is not love; pretending that sinners can go on sinning without having to worry about any of that, which lulls people to sleep on the edge of the abyss when they need to be warned instead, is not love.
But so much further removed from love than any of that, is treating someone as less than you, because they are different from you.
I can think of nothing more generous, loving, giving and caring than a Christian fundamentalist saying "you know what, I may disagree with what you do, I may think it's a sin, but it hurts no one else, it's your life, have a fabulous wedding, here's your cake." Now that would be love for your brother !

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 7:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:51 AM vimesey has replied
 Message 223 by Larni, posted 03-27-2014 2:24 PM vimesey has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 209 of 1309 (723155)
03-27-2014 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by vimesey
03-27-2014 8:42 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Pretending there is no such thing as sin is not love; pretending there is no such thing as God's judgment for sin is not love; pretending that there is no such thing as Hell is not love; pretending that sinners can go on sinning without having to worry about any of that, which lulls people to sleep on the edge of the abyss when they need to be warned instead, is not love.
But so much further removed from love than any of that, is treating someone as less than you, because they are different from you.
I have never said nor implied nor thought nor felt that anybody is less than I because different than I. I know I'm a sinner too, and probably worse in many ways than any homosexual. The idea that I'm looking down on them is just plain wrong. My entire focus is on upholding God's word. That's it. It's not a personal attitude of any sort. Sin is sin, we're all sinners, sin incurs judgment, and the Son of God became a man and died for any who would rather be saved than get punished for our sin. If you don't know you're a sinner then you won't know it's possible to be saved either. Homosexual sin is still just sin, it's nothing special, but society has decided that this of all sins is not to be regarded as sin and that those who call it sin are evil. It's all coming from you guys, forcing us to defend our views. If we weren't being told we have to regard it not as sin but as normal, or that we have to accept gay marriage, none of this would be happening which is provoking the most amazing hate speech I've ever heard, not FROM us but AGAINST us.
I can think of nothing more generous, loving, giving and caring than a Christian fundamentalist saying "you know what, I may disagree with what you do, I may think it's a sin, but it hurts no one else, it's your life, have a fabulous wedding, here's your cake." Now that would be love for your brother !
It just doesn't work that way. We're getting set up as targets, that's what this is all about.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by vimesey, posted 03-27-2014 8:42 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by vimesey, posted 03-27-2014 9:10 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 210 of 1309 (723157)
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


And ya know what. I think it's finally hit me just how deeply hated I am here, I mean the rhetoric that has been coming against me is like sheer pure hate. Funny it took so long for that to get through to me. In any case I finally get the message. Time to leave.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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