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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(3)
Message 181 of 1309 (723083)
03-26-2014 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:42 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
lokiare writes:
A third choice. Religion is not comparable to homosexuality because religion (for the non-religious) is a set of beliefs that guide your entire life (for Christians its a personal relationship with God and is undeniable). Homosexuality is simply a choice of sexual partners it does not inform the rest of your life.
Right, exactly what I said. Religion is a choice, even more so than you claim homosexuality is.
lokiare writes:
Just don't try to force it on me or into my establishments. Don't try to force my church to marry homosexuals and don't force my Christian baker friend to make cakes for a homosexual wedding.
I guarantee you that no church in the U.S. will ever be forced to perform a same sex marriage, any more than any has ever been forced to perform a mixed faith marriage or a mixed race marriage. So put your mind at ease on that count.
As far as a baker is concerned, several states in this country have decided that it is illegal to discriminate in the provision of public services against someone because of their sexuality. Nobody is forcing anyone to bake a cake, but if one chooses to go into the bakery business and hold themselves out to the public as a baker, they have to take on all comers. If you don't like that some of those comers might be celebrating ceremonies you disapprove of, get out of that business.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(5)
Message 182 of 1309 (723084)
03-26-2014 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:36 PM


lokiare writes:
This one falls under common knowledge, unless you want specific studies and further evidence.
Your ability to ignore a point when you're wrong is impressive.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:36 PM lokiare has not replied

Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(3)
Message 183 of 1309 (723085)
03-26-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by subbie
03-26-2014 2:30 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Just don't try to force it on me or into my establishments. Don't try to force my church to marry homosexuals and don't force my Christian baker friend to make cakes for a homosexual wedding.
And by that logic, the Muslim baker should not have to serve women or Jews. Because we wouldn't want to have him compromise his religious beliefs.
And the Jehovah Witness doctor should not be forced to have to perform a blood transfusion on a dying patient. Wouldn't want to compromise their religious beliefs now would we?
The cartwheels religious fundies perform to justify their nonsense is beyond embarrassing. And it is so easy to poke holes in their worldview, that I am beginning to think that the symbol for Christian Fundamentalism should not be a cross: it should be a brick of Swiss Cheese.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 184 of 1309 (723093)
03-26-2014 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Diomedes
03-26-2014 3:12 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
You make a good point I'm sorry to say. So we're going to have to take punishment for upholding the Biblical view that homosexuality as a sin and refusing to do anything that validates gay marriage.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 3:55 PM Faith has replied
 Message 192 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 4:38 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 193 by subbie, posted 03-26-2014 4:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 217 by ringo, posted 03-27-2014 12:24 PM Faith has not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 185 of 1309 (723094)
03-26-2014 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by New Cat's Eye
03-26-2014 10:14 AM


Re: Same old, same old.
Wait, couldn't you just choose to not like the gay porn? If you might be influenced by it, then how does it remain a choice? And if you're a heterosexual, then you won't be able to be arroused by gay porn, so why the worry?
Remember? Big Gay Al is shoving cocks down his throat, kidnapping him and forcing him to have gay poop orgies.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 10:14 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 1309 (723098)
03-26-2014 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
03-26-2014 3:44 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
So we're going to have to take punishment for upholding the Biblical view that homosexuality as a sin and refusing to do anything that validates gay marriage.
Or you could just stop publically selling cakes, or whatever.
If you still want to sell cakes, you could open up a private, membership-only, christian bakery that picks and chooses its customers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 3:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 187 of 1309 (723099)
03-26-2014 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by New Cat's Eye
03-26-2014 3:55 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
All of which I consider to be taking punishment. One way or another if we want to stand for our Biblical beliefs we'll have to take some kind of punishment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 3:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by AZPaul3, posted 03-26-2014 4:23 PM Faith has replied
 Message 189 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2014 4:28 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 191 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 4:36 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 194 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 4:54 PM Faith has replied
 Message 245 by onifre, posted 04-02-2014 9:48 AM Faith has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 188 of 1309 (723102)
03-26-2014 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
03-26-2014 4:04 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
One way or another if we want to stand for our Biblical beliefs we'll have to take some kind of punishment.
Maybe so, but isn't that better than the open resentment of a public into whom you try to cram your beliefs? Instead of forceful lord and master, christians could try to play nice with society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 2:57 AM AZPaul3 has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 189 of 1309 (723105)
03-26-2014 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
03-26-2014 4:04 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
All of which I consider to be taking punishment. One way or another if we want to stand for our Biblical beliefs we'll have to take some kind of punishment.
And part of living in America and having freedom of beliefs is that others are just as free to disagree with you and to act on their beliefs as long as there is no harm.
When you discriminate, denigrate and demonize certain people because of your beliefs you cause harm. It doesn't matter what you use as a basis for such discriminatory behavior, it causes harm.
Now you may argue that the existence of such people cause you harm, but they are not acting with intent to harm while you are. That is where it crosses the line of acceptable behavior in a free society.
There is no secular purpose to such discrimination, so the only justification is in specific personal beliefs.
That is not enough to justify discrimination in a free society: it is not your place to pass judgment on people based on beliefs.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 190 of 1309 (723107)
03-26-2014 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:28 PM


Re: Research Studies
How does this in any way equivocate to homosexuality or the argument at hand? Are there homosexual bees?
You are arguing that evolution would not favor a situation where members of a species do not reproduce because of genetics. Worker bees demonstrates that you are wrong. Evolution can and does select for genetic mutations that result in non-reproducing individuals in a social species.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:28 PM lokiare has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(5)
Message 191 of 1309 (723108)
03-26-2014 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
03-26-2014 4:04 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
All of which I consider to be taking punishment. One way or another if we want to stand for our Biblical beliefs we'll have to take some kind of punishment.
Your stand requires you to punish others and take away their human rights. That's the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:04 PM Faith has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(8)
Message 192 of 1309 (723109)
03-26-2014 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
03-26-2014 3:44 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
You make a good point I'm sorry to say. So we're going to have to take punishment for upholding the Biblical view that homosexuality as a sin and refusing to do anything that validates gay marriage.
I find it strange that christians would consider it punishment to treat fellow human beings with a little bit of dignity and fairness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 3:44 PM Faith has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(4)
Message 193 of 1309 (723110)
03-26-2014 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
03-26-2014 3:44 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Faith writes:
So we're going to have to take punishment for upholding the Biblical view that homosexuality as a sin and refusing to do anything that validates gay marriage.
Just like Christians of the past had to adjust to societal acceptance of interracial marriage, ending slavery, women voting ...

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 3:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2014 5:32 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:17 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 194 of 1309 (723111)
03-26-2014 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
03-26-2014 4:04 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
All of which I consider to be taking punishment.
Yeah, well, what do you know? You can't even accept basic facts about our world, and you make up your own definitions for words.
So pardon me for thinking your considerations are worthless.
One way or another if we want to stand for our Biblical beliefs we'll have to take some kind of punishment.
Oh boo-hoo. Waah, I can't open a public bakery and discriminate against people. Waah, I'm being so punished.
Jon Jones and David Koresh, now there were some people who were punished for standing up for their Biblical beliefs.
And you're wining because people won't let you discriminate. Tsk tsk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 4:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:24 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 195 of 1309 (723118)
03-26-2014 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by subbie
03-26-2014 4:53 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Just like Christians of the past had to adjust to societal acceptance of interracial marriage, ending slavery, women voting ...
Women owning property, running businesses, becoming engineers and doctors ...
Sadly we still have the Equal Pay Act sitting in congress because the house won't put it up for vote ... some recalcitrant misogynistic bigotry still going on (just like there is still some race bigotry going on, especially in red states and voter suppression).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by subbie, posted 03-26-2014 4:53 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

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