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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 337 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 151 of 1309 (723005)
03-25-2014 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:36 PM


First Free Republic, now Daily Mail. Is the Onion your next source for information? It's no wonder you have no understanding of discrimination or evidence.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:36 PM lokiare has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8327
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 152 of 1309 (723006)
03-25-2014 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by NosyNed
03-25-2014 9:37 PM


Re: Evidence
He has provided no evidence and does not respond to calls for evidence. He has stories and anecdotes. Another Liar for Christ it seems.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by NosyNed, posted 03-25-2014 9:37 PM NosyNed has not replied

lokiare
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 69
Joined: 03-18-2014


Message 153 of 1309 (723007)
03-25-2014 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by subbie
03-25-2014 8:40 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
lokiare writes:
Now compare that to all the things that the law declares as 'civil' rights, things like age (no choice), sex (no choice), race (no choice), etc...etc... It doesn't compare. You are comparing apples to oranges.
And you are leaving out religion.
Are you just stupid, or are you being deliberately disingenuous? Or is there a third choice that's not occurring to me at this time?
A third choice. Religion is not comparable to homosexuality because religion (for the non-religious) is a set of beliefs that guide your entire life (for Christians its a personal relationship with God and is undeniable). Homosexuality is simply a choice of sexual partners it does not inform the rest of your life.
To tell you the truth, I wouldn't care if they took the 1st amendment and made it a new amendment changing the words homosexual for religion. I don't care if you establish homosexuality (legally, no sexual abuse or other tactics), or the free exercise thereof. Just don't try to force it on me or into my establishments. Don't try to force my church to marry homosexuals and don't force my Christian baker friend to make cakes for a homosexual wedding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by subbie, posted 03-25-2014 8:40 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 239 by ringo, posted 04-01-2014 12:49 PM lokiare has not replied
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3857
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 154 of 1309 (723008)
03-25-2014 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:31 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
lokiare writes:
Equating homosexuality to the civil rights movement is a false dichotomy. You are comparing a purely genetic set of traits to a non-genetic(according to all evidence shown in this thread) choice based mental affiliation (thousands have chosen to change back to being heterosexual). Have fun with that.
I know, I know--and you with gay friends, too!
Equating homosexuality with the civil rights movement? Lokiare, dear heart--that's not what I was doing at all: I'm equating you with every garden variety bigot I've ever encountered.
You have shown no evidence in this thread. Anecdotes are not evidence; links to press material are not evidence. You have established no facts.
I know this probably puts me on your ignore list, an honor I will try to bear with dignity.
Given your homophobia (the only psychological disorder you have actually demonstrated), the future of our increasingly tolerant society will be painful for you.
Have fun with that.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:31 PM lokiare has not replied

lokiare
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 69
Joined: 03-18-2014


Message 155 of 1309 (723009)
03-25-2014 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Omnivorous
03-25-2014 9:01 PM


Re: choice??
lokiare writes:
Again, can anyone provide some proof in the form of studies, facts, or articles?
You made an assertion that you refuse to support with evidence.
No one has any obligation to refute what you cannot support.
Actually I did, however I'll go through tomorrow or in a few days and do the whole 3 page wall of text thing with a long list of studies that have been done, excerpts from them, and links to the sites where they can be found. Its getting late here though so I'm going to try to finish up posting what's in the thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Omnivorous, posted 03-25-2014 9:01 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3857
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(3)
Message 156 of 1309 (723010)
03-25-2014 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:44 PM


Re: choice??
lokiare writes:
Actually I did, however I'll go through tomorrow or in a few days and do the whole 3 page wall of text thing with a long list of studies that have been done, excerpts from them, and links to the sites where they can be found. Its getting late here though so I'm going to try to finish up posting what's in the thread.
Actually, you didn't.
Don't go for bulk, lokiare, it betrays thinness on the ground.
Just one sound, peer-reviewed study. Easy peasy.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:44 PM lokiare has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 157 of 1309 (723012)
03-25-2014 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by lokiare
03-25-2014 8:01 PM


Strange how its not discrimination to tell someone they won't be served an all vegetable plate, or that they won't serve people without shirts or shoes ...
Wow. Really reaching in desperation aren't you.
You won't get an all veggie plate here because we have no such product. We don't serve that, not because we are bigoted anti-veggie, but because our product mix, our business offering, our target audience and our profits are not in that sector. (You know as well as I that any restaurant in business will gladly accommodate the vegetarian simply out of good business practice so this analogy is bogus to begin with.)
No shirt, no shoes, no service is hardly bigotry against naked people and it does have health, insurance and modesty attributes of which you are unaware. Again, bad example.
As far as liver? What you do in your own home is up to you. No one disputes that. You can also keep swastikas up on your walls, bar any niggers from passing through your door and play Hitler's speeches in the background all you want during your no-liver diner. No one gives a shit.
Have all this up in your open-to-the-public-restaurant and the local sheriff may not be so accommodating.
This secular society, in aggregate, determines what level of your bigotry is acceptable in public and what level is not, not you or your church. Any "rights" you have stop where they interfere with other's more basic rights. Deal with it.

This message is a reply to:
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lokiare
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 69
Joined: 03-18-2014


Message 158 of 1309 (723013)
03-25-2014 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by AZPaul3
03-25-2014 9:12 PM


I haven't been able to find a single reputable study that proves anything of the sort.
Of course not. Get with the philosophy of science. We can never prove anything. We can, however, shed light on an issue with evidence.
No, if you are looking for a definitive statement that this here gene causes homosexuality you will not find it. Again, the complexity involved in genetics (did you look at epigenetics as I suggested?) and the biochemistry of the body and brain preclude, as of our present understanding, pointing to any definitive set of parameters that can be assured to produce homosexuality.
What we have, however, are copious studies that all point in the direction of there being a bio-physiological determinant, not an acculturation or a conscious decision outside ones bio-physiology, in determining sexual orientation. On the contrary side, the only position papers on the subject, are the subjective evaluations of religiously motivated parties with no scientific basis for their conclusions.
Have a gander at some of these here.
On the first page of that link is one of the studies disproving another of the studies:
Just a moment...
quote:
Several lines of evidence have implicated genetic factors in homosexuality. The most compelling observation has been the report of genetic linkage of male homosexuality to microsatellite markers on the X chromosome. This observation warranted further study and confirmation. Sharing of alleles at position Xq28 was studied in 52 gay male sibling pairs from Canadian families. Four markers at Xq28 were analyzed (DXS1113, BGN, Factor 8, and DXS1108). Allele and haplotype sharing for these markers was not increased over expectation. These results do not support an X-linked gene underlying male homosexuality.
This happens over and over. A study is put forth, someone peer reviews it showing its incorrect or the study itself is inconclusive. I'm asking for you to present at least one study that shows a genetic link to homosexuality. I have already looked and have been unable to find one that wasn't inconclusive or discredited.
But the very best scientific study you can find with definitive answers to sexual orientation being inbred rather than some on-again, off-again social choice is ... you.
You are your own laboratory. You are your own best experimental study.
The hypothesis: If you really like having sex with girls to the exclusion of all other folks (like boys), can you actually decide to go out and enjoy sucking some cock?
The null hypothesis is that, yes, regardless of your exclusive penchant for pussy, you really can decide on your own volition to go out and truly enjoy sucking on some cock.
Go ahead and run this experiment several times. Be sure to keep detailed notes. You can report your findings here.
Nope sorry. The chemical reinforcement would prevent me from doing this. Also nice way to slip the insult "go suck cock" into a cleverly disguised post. Isn't that a violation of some forum rule some where?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2014 9:12 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 168 by AZPaul3, posted 03-25-2014 10:19 PM lokiare has not replied

lokiare
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 69
Joined: 03-18-2014


Message 159 of 1309 (723014)
03-25-2014 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by hooah212002
03-25-2014 9:25 PM


I do have a problem when I am forced to cater to something I don't believe is right. Akin to an animal rights activist being forced to slaughter a cow or something like that.
So you are being forced to fuck men in the ass?
No, we as Christians are being forced to cater to someone making a mockery of one of our sacred traditions (namely marriage). I've never heard of anyone refusing to serve fast food to a homosexual, only certain things that deal with our religious beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by hooah212002, posted 03-25-2014 9:25 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2237
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 160 of 1309 (723015)
03-25-2014 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:54 PM


quote:
No, we as Christians are being forced to cater to someone making a mockery of one of our sacred traditions (namely marriage).
what makes you think christianity is the sole owner of marriage?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:54 PM lokiare has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 587 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 161 of 1309 (723016)
03-25-2014 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:52 PM


Nope sorry. The chemical reinforcement would prevent me from doing this.
Prevent you? You mean you don't have a choice?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:52 PM lokiare has not replied

lokiare
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 69
Joined: 03-18-2014


Message 162 of 1309 (723017)
03-25-2014 10:00 PM


I'm going to bed now. I will be back in a few days to present multiple studies that prove my premise.
I've had about enough logical fallacies, so from here on out I'm just going to name the fallacies in your post and move on, no point in even responding. If you can repost the same info without the insults, name calling, or logical fallacies I'll respond then.
See you in a few days. Do me a favor and try not to get the thread locked before I can post the info.

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 587 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 163 of 1309 (723018)
03-25-2014 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:36 PM


There is a difference between establishing that something has a genetic component and locating the gene or genes. Equivocating between the two makes you look either ignorant or dishonest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:36 PM lokiare has not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 337 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(3)
Message 164 of 1309 (723019)
03-25-2014 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:54 PM


No, we as Christians are being forced to cater to someone
That is not true. Business persons that open their business to the public do so under the laws of the public sector. Not being allowed to discriminate comes with the territory.
You said it was like an animal rights activist being forced to slaughter a cow,so I asked what you were being forced to do by the gays. The gays are not forcing YOU to do anything. jeebus forbid you are accepting of people. I bet jeebus would love it.
someone making a mockery of one of our sacred traditions (namely marriage).
lol. Marriage isn't a religious institution. Religious marriage, maybe. But homosexuals don't want reliigous married, they want married. No one is or even can force religious people to marry homosexuals.
Secondly, are you also this up in arms about people like Ted Haggard or Rush Limbaugh "making a mockery of marriage"?
I've never heard of anyone refusing to serve fast food to a homosexual, only certain things that deal with our religious beliefs.
Nor have I. I have neither heard of a gold crested heartford swallow flying southwest for spring. What relevance does either have with this topic?

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by lokiare, posted 03-25-2014 9:54 PM lokiare has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 587 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 165 of 1309 (723020)
03-25-2014 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by lokiare
03-25-2014 9:31 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Equating homosexuality to the civil rights movement is a false dichotomy.
I wonder what on Earth you think "false dichotomy" means. Here's a hint as to its actual meaning: a false dichotomy invariably involves a dichotomy of some sort.
You are comparing a purely genetic set of traits to a non-genetic(according to all evidence shown in this thread) choice based mental affiliation (thousands have chosen to change back to being heterosexual).
But remember that this is crap that you've made up, and for which you have produced not a shred of evidence.
While we're remembering that, let's have a look at the American Psychological Association's Appropriate Therapeutic Responses
to Sexual Orientation
.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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