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Author Topic:   Cosmos with Neil DeGrass Tyson
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(1)
Message 76 of 206 (722481)
03-21-2014 12:34 PM


Isaac Newton
So, this week on Cosmos we will have the explanation of how we understand the movements of the heavenly bodies. This discussion cannot take place without a conversation about Isaac Newton and his mathematical genius that made all of these discoveries even possible. Well, I for one am very intrigued to see how Neil DeGrasse Tyson does with this story. From many of the things I have watched him in (Debates and otherwise) he always gets very animated and emotional when discussing Newton, who he readily admits is possibly the greatest scientist in history.
Here is a small snippet of conversation from BigThink, called My Man, Sir Isaac Newton:
My Man, Sir Isaac Newton
I think that each episode is going to continue to simply present the evidence and make the best case for how we know what we know. Kind of similar to the book, "A Short History of Nearly Everything." However, it is these moments (such as NDT talking about Newton) that I am most interested in because I think that this is where Neil's passion can really come through. We shall see, but I am excited to see this week's episode.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Taq, posted 03-21-2014 12:44 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9301
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 77 of 206 (722483)
03-21-2014 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2014 12:34 PM


Re: Isaac Newton
This discussion cannot take place without a conversation about Isaac Newton and his mathematical genius that made all of these discoveries even possible.
Kepler also produced some very useful and elegant mathematical explanations right on the heels of Copernicus' work. Hopefully he gets some well deserved time in the lime light.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2014 12:34 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

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 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 03-21-2014 3:46 PM Taq has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 206 (722507)
03-21-2014 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Taq
03-21-2014 12:44 PM


Re: Isaac Newton
Kepler also produced some very useful and elegant mathematical explanations right on the heels of Copernicus' work.
I would hope Kepler would at least be mentioned if the topic is about the motion of the planets. But in general Isaac Newton, at least during his sane, productive periods, was a league apart from Kepler and almost everyone else. I could imagine an entire show on Newton's contributions during which Kepler is not even mentioned.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Taq, posted 03-21-2014 12:44 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2014 5:23 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 79 of 206 (722516)
03-21-2014 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by NoNukes
03-21-2014 3:46 PM


Re: Isaac Newton
I would have to watch the little preview videos they had on the website to verify, but I think that I remember them mentioning Kepler. Please note, this was only about a one minute teaser video.
I do know the video starts out with, "The Astronomer Johannes Kepler had demonstrated some eighty years before that the orbits of the planets around the sun were not perfect circles, but actually ellipses. That the closer a planet was to the Sun, the faster it moved. Why?"
They also mention Robert Hooke, Christopher Wren and Edmond Halley through the segment (not a lot of details just mentioned).
Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, Orbits of the Planets
ABE - In fact, now that I watched the preview again, it does not get into telling you anything about Newton, but rather what would eventually lead to his creation of calculus.
Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : No reason given.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 03-21-2014 3:46 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by NoNukes, posted 03-22-2014 10:21 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 896 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 80 of 206 (722570)
03-22-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by NoNukes
03-20-2014 11:37 AM


AIG Complaint (oh boo hoo)
Creationists Demand Airtime On 'Cosmos' For The Sake Of Balance
quote:
The Creationist group Answers In Genesis, which was already incensed about Neil deGrasse Tyson’s revival of Cosmos, is now complaining that the show lacks scientific balance because it fails to provide airtime for evolution deniers.
Danny Faulkner of Answers In Genesis and the Creation Museum appeared on The Janet Mefferd Show yesterday to criticize Cosmos for not providing airtime for Creationism adherents. When Mefferd asked if Cosmos will ever give a Creationist any time, Faulkner responded by lamenting that Creationists aren’t even on the radar screen for them, they wouldn’t even consider us plausible at all.
Perhaps because they are NOT plausible and reality isn't "fair" to pseudoscientific beliefs?
And if Danny wants "fair and balanced" presentation of views, then perhaps he should discuss opening up the AIG pages to actual posts on actual evolution, or to open the Creation "museum" to allow scientific presentation of why they are so wrong. Somehow I don't think that is going to happen ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 206 (722583)
03-22-2014 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2014 5:23 PM


Re: Isaac Newton
The Astronomer Johannes Kepler had demonstrated some eighty years before that the orbits of the planets around the sun were not perfect circles, but actually ellipses. That the closer a planet was to the Sun, the faster it moved. Why?"
Thanks. Newton or no Newton, I've just given the episode a 10.1 out of 10, sight unseen. I may have to raise that between now and airtime.
In fact, now that I watched the preview again, it does not get into telling you anything about Newton, but rather what would eventually lead to his creation of calculus.
Let's see if Leibniz gets any credit.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2014 5:23 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 03-23-2014 2:23 PM NoNukes has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 896 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 82 of 206 (722627)
03-23-2014 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by NoNukes
03-22-2014 10:21 PM


More whining from the pseudos
Science Deniers Are Freaking Out About Cosmos (Bill Moyers)
quote:
If you think the first episode of the new Fox Cosmos series was controversial (with its relatively minor mentions of climate change, evolution and the Big Bang), Sunday night’s show threw down the gauntlet. Pretty much the entire episode was devoted to the topic of evolution, and the vast profusion of evidence (especially genetic evidence) showing that it is indeed the explanation behind all life on Earth. At one point, host Neil deGrasse Tyson stated it as plainly as you possibly can: The theory of evolution, like the theory of gravity, is a scientific fact. (You can watch the full episode here.)
Denying evolution: Sunday’s episode of Cosmos was all about evolution. It closely followed the rhetorical strategy of Charles Darwin’s world-changing 1859 book,... Tyson also refuted one of the creationist’s favorite canards: the idea that complex organs, like the eye, could not have been produced through evolution.
Denying climate change: Thus far, Cosmos has referred to climate change in each of its two opening episodes, but has not gone into any depth on the matter. Perhaps that’s for a later episode. But in the meantime, it seems some conservatives are already bashing Tyson as a global warming proponent. Writing at the Media Research Center’s Newsbusters blog, Jeffrey Meyer critiques a recent Tyson appearance on Late Night With Seth Myers. Meyers and deGrasse Tyson chose to take a cheap shot at religious people and claim they don’t believe in science i.e. liberal causes like global warming, writes Meyer.
There is also an interview between Bill Moyers and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Good stuff.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by NoNukes, posted 03-22-2014 10:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by NoNukes, posted 03-23-2014 2:31 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 84 by Percy, posted 03-23-2014 2:58 PM RAZD has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 83 of 206 (722629)
03-23-2014 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by RAZD
03-23-2014 2:23 PM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
Writing at the Media Research Center’s Newsbusters blog, Jeffrey Meyer ...
This is dog bites man "news" Of course he hates this show.
quote:
The Media Research Center (MRC) is a politically conservative content analysis organization based in Reston, Virginia, founded in 1987 by activist L. Brent Bozell III. Its stated mission is to "provethrough sound scientific researchthat liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values" and to neutralize the perceived liberal bias of the mainstream media.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 03-23-2014 2:23 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21346
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 84 of 206 (722631)
03-23-2014 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by RAZD
03-23-2014 2:23 PM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
Bill Moyers quote writes:
At one point, host Neil deGrasse Tyson stated it as plainly as you possibly can: The theory of evolution, like the theory of gravity, is a scientific fact.
I hope Tyson didn't really say this. No theory is a fact. That gravity is and has been at work in the universe is a fact. That evolution is and has been taking place on Earth is a fact. Their respective theories of how these processes work are not facts.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 03-23-2014 2:23 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by RAZD, posted 03-24-2014 8:00 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 896 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 85 of 206 (722667)
03-24-2014 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Percy
03-23-2014 2:58 PM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
Sadly he did.

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 Message 84 by Percy, posted 03-23-2014 2:58 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 980
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 86 of 206 (722705)
03-24-2014 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by RAZD
03-24-2014 8:00 AM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
Sadly he did.
Arrgh! Tyson should have known better. I am sure it was just a slip of the tongue, but still.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 206 (722707)
03-24-2014 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Diomedes
03-24-2014 11:57 AM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
I am sure it was just a slip of the tongue,
Can't be, it's scripted and directed.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 206 (722714)
03-24-2014 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Percy
03-23-2014 2:58 PM


Re: More whining from the pseudos
Their respective theories of how these processes work are not facts
Taq's orginal complaint seems more on point now. I'm going to take another listen to that section of the show. But only after I watch next weeks show.
Still it is an attack point for the Discovery institute and those Liberal Bias Media Research folks and their 'evolution is just a theory' cannard.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Percy, posted 03-23-2014 2:58 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 89 of 206 (722715)
03-24-2014 1:21 PM


Comment about the first episode
About some criticism of the show.
I participated in a blog discussion a couple of weeks ago in which a number of people jumped to the defense of the Catholic Church after the first episode. In essence the arguments were that Giordano Bruno was a dirt bag and was killed for blashphemy rather than anything uncovered by science. Galileo, I was told was only under house arrest, which wasn't so bad, and thus he was not a martyr for science. Besides Galileo was wrong about some thing or other he said about the moon.
I did not see those arguments in time to respond, but looking back on it, I don't think the comments need a response because they are no defense at all. Burning someone alive because they are a dirtbag? Placing someone under house arrest for the rest of their lives after you force them to recant science under threat of death is cool? That's your effing defense?
Okay, I've vented here, cause I can't vent there. I'm better now.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Diomedes, posted 03-24-2014 3:17 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 94 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 4:14 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 980
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 90 of 206 (722732)
03-24-2014 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by NoNukes
03-24-2014 1:21 PM


Re: Comment about the first episode
Burning someone alive because they are a dirtbag? Placing someone under house arrest for the rest of their lives after you force them to recant science under threat of death is cool? That's your effing defense?
They are not any type of defense. The first one is actually just attacking the individual versus attacking the position. A typical creationist ploy. (If we tell children they came from monkeys, won't they act like them?)
I read somewhere that some creationists are complaining about the lack of airtime they are allowed on the show. Then maybe they should produce something tangible that can be reviewed and debated. But it never happens. They spend their time poking holes in other people's theories (usually leveraging science they don't understand) rather than actually creating and defining experiments that can confirm the veracity of their viewpoints.
The Templeton fund has made available grants to creationists for advancing their intelligent design or creationist theories. Yet not a single individual has produced any viable experiment or scientific concept. The only recourse they have is doing what Michael Behe did which is try to redefine science so they can pigeon hole their views into it. Which would also open the floodgates for allowing things like astrology and pyramid power into the fray.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by NoNukes, posted 03-24-2014 1:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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