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Author Topic:   The Divine signature in the Torah
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 87 of 139 (721592)
03-10-2014 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Dr Adequate
03-09-2014 4:33 PM


And yet somehow these alleged six papers don't appear in the program of the conference or in the published proceedings of the conference. Nor does Gans himself. So this looks like a great big lie with a topping of bullshit sauce.
Bs'd
Let me guess: Because you, in all your wisdom, cannot find it, therefore it doesn't exist, and it is all bs??
ICPR 2006: Hong Kong, China
18th International Conference on Pattern Recognition (ICPR 2006), 20-24 August 2006, Hong Kong, China. IEEE Computer Society 2006 ISBN 0-7695-2521-0
dblp: ICPR 2006 - Volume III
Robert M. Haralick: Basic Concepts For Testing The Torah Code Hypothesis. 104-109
Robert M. Haralick: Testing The Torah Code Hypothesis: The Experimental Protocol. 110-115
Eliyahu Rips, Art Levitt: The Twin Towers Cluster in Torah Codes. 408-411
Art Levitt: Component Analysis of Torah Code Phrases. 412-416
Nachum Bombach, Harold Gans: Patterns of Co-Linear Equidistant Letter Sequences and Verses. 1248-1250
Nachum Bombach, Harold Gans: Patterns of Co-Linear Equidistant Letter Sequences and Verses. 149-151


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-09-2014 4:33 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 2:09 AM Eliyahu has replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 88 of 139 (721594)
03-10-2014 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Dr Adequate
03-10-2014 12:22 AM


Let me tell you again how science works:
Being wrong twice is no substitute for being right once.
Bs'd
Whether you like it or not, that's how science works.
In 2006, at the 18th International Pattern Recognition Conference, which took place in Hong Kong, there were six papers published in support of the Torah codes. All of these papers were subject to peer review, which means that fellow scientists reviewed the papers and could note any flaw in the research or logic that they might find. Were they to find an uncorrectable flaw, the paper would be rejected.
One of the papers that I co-authored proved that the original paper describing the Great Rabbis Experiment was not a hoax, and that the experiment with the rabbis and the cities of their birth and death was valid. That paper referenced the critic's 1999 Statistical Science paper, so that the reviewers could easily refer to it.
According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.
See message #80.
See message 87
And that "refutation" in Statistical Science did not give a refutation, but it only was a ridiculous accusation of a wide spread conspiracy to cook the data in such a way that it would give a meaningfull result. That the result was meaningfull was something they couldn't deny.
But this is not true, as one can see, and I have just seen, by reading the paper.
That is true, as one can see, by just reading the the paper.
If there were any flaws in it, it would never have been published in a peer reviewed journal to begin with.
Have you gone completely mad?
Have you gone completely mad that you think flawed papers are published in peer reviewed scientific journals??


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 12:22 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by TrueCreation, posted 03-10-2014 1:34 AM Eliyahu has replied
 Message 90 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 1:43 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 91 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 1:47 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 94 of 139 (721602)
03-10-2014 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by TrueCreation
03-10-2014 1:34 AM


This happens quite often. You also previously referenced conference abstracts as if these were 'peer reviewed literature', demonstrating that you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about.
Bs'd
You think that would happen with an extremely controversial article, which has been reviewed for six years, and for which the wolds best experts are consulted?


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by TrueCreation, posted 03-10-2014 1:34 AM TrueCreation has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 95 of 139 (721603)
03-10-2014 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Dr Adequate
03-10-2014 2:09 AM


I've got to admit, this is impressive.
Oh, wait.
That's the Hebrew translation of War And Peace.
Bs'd
Can you enlighten us on the statistical relevence of that particular code?
Oh wait, there isn't any...


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 2:09 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 11:57 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 96 of 139 (721604)
03-10-2014 2:47 AM


Bs'd
It all boils down to this: Can anybody point out a fatal flaw in all of the six papers presented at the 2006 ICPR, each presenting a different approach and a different code?
If not, then for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by NoNukes, posted 03-10-2014 8:34 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 98 of 139 (721611)
03-10-2014 9:46 AM


Bs'd
Some more about the upcoming festival of Purim, the Esther story:
we read there that Haman, the evil one who wanted to murder all the Jews, was defeated, and his ten sons were killed: "5 The Jews struck down all their enemies with the sword, killing and destroying them, and they did what they pleased to those who hated them. 6 In the citadel of Susa, the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred men. 7 They also killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai and Vaizatha, 10 the ten sons of Haman son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews."
Esther 9.
And then there came a curious request of queen Esther. The king allowed her to make a wish: "The king said to Queen Esther, In the citadel of Susa the Jews have killed five hundred people and also the ten sons of Haman. What have they done in the rest of the king’s provinces? Now what is your petition? It shall be granted you. And what further is your request? It shall be fulfilled. 13 Esther said, If it pleases the king, let the Jews who are in Susa be allowed tomorrow also to do according to this day’s edict, and let the ten sons of Haman be hanged on the gallows." Ibid
So the dead sons of Haman were hanged on the gallows. What was the use of that? They were dead already, they couldn't make them more dead than dead. But anyway, there they were hanging, and the Jews were saved from the mass murder that Haman had in mind for them.
This fortunate turn of events is being celebrated every year with the purim feast, as prescribed in the book of Esther: "Mordecai recorded these things, and sent letters to all the Jews who were in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus, both near and far, 21 enjoining them that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar and also the fifteenth day of the same month, year by year, 22 as the days on which the Jews gained relief from their enemies, and as the month that had been turned for them from sorrow into gladness and from mourning into a holiday; that they should make them days of feasting and gladness, days for sending gifts of food to one another and presents to the poor. 23 So the Jews adopted as a custom what they had begun to do, as Mordecai had written to them." Ibid
The names of the ten sons of the evil Haman who were hanged, are mentioned in the Esther scroll: 6 In the citadel of Susa the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred people. 7 They killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai, Vaizatha, 10 the ten sons of Haman Ibid
In the Esther scroll these ten names of the sons of Haman, are written one underneath the other, on the right side, and on the left side is written and, see here:
What we notice here, is that three letters are written smaller than the rest. This is done for thousands of years, and nobody knows why. We see that in the first name, the one but last letter, a tav, is smaller than the rest. In the seventh name we see that the fourth letter, (from the right) a shin, is written small, And in the last name, the third letter, a zayin, is written small.
Also we notice, that the first letter of the last name, a waav, is written bigger than usual.
Like I said, why that is is not known, it is just a matter of tradition, like That's the way we do it, and that's it.
The interesting part is, that every Hebrew letter has a numerical value. For instance, that small tav has a value of 400, the small shin a value of 300, and the small zayin a value of 7, making together 707.
And there is the big waav, with a numerical value of 6.
These numbers can be read as a date. The 707 pointing to years, the big waav pointing to the sixth millennium in which we live right now, giving us the year 5707. In the Christian counting of the years that year would start in 1946. And it just happened to be so, that in that year were the Neurenberger trials of nazi war criminals. Twelve of them were convicted to death by hanging. One they didn't have. Another one, Goering, in the night before his hanging, he swallowed a poison capsule, and he escaped the gallows. So on the date of 21 Tishrei 5707, ten nazi war criminals, Jew-murderers, were hanged.
When Julius Streicher was led upon the scaffold, he said: Now I'm going to God!
And Newsweek magazine of 28 Okt 1946 said archive.ph that just before the trapdoor to eternity opened up underneath his feet, he called out: Purim fest 1946!
Isn't that interesting?


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-10-2014 10:11 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 102 of 139 (721640)
03-10-2014 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by NoNukes
03-10-2014 1:48 PM


The correct way to decide who is correct is to analyze the papers and not to simply date them or look at who has gotten in the last word.
Bs'd
That's your opinion.
This is the scientific viewpoint:
According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.
So, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.
Have a nice day.
.
.
.


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by NoNukes, posted 03-10-2014 1:48 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-10-2014 4:02 PM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 104 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-10-2014 8:11 PM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 105 by AZPaul3, posted 03-10-2014 9:17 PM Eliyahu has replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 106 of 139 (721652)
03-11-2014 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by AZPaul3
03-10-2014 9:17 PM


The problem with those papers you keep citing is that, just like creation science, they are done by a small cadre of true believers publishing over and over and for whom no amount of reality will suffice. And if you read the damn things they are not "proofs" of anything, but different techniques to manipulate the data.
Bs'd
The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.
The fact of the matter is, that the religion hating scientific community has had now 8 years to refute these papers, and they came up with exactly nothting.
There are plenty mathematicians out there with a lot of time on their hands who, just like you, hate religion and the Bible codes, who could have written a rebuttal in the past eight years, and made a name for themselves as the one who debunked the Bible codes.
That just didn't happen, for the simple reason that there is no rebuttal, and they didn't want to make a fool of themselves.

According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.
Harold Gans, mathematician and professional code breaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by AZPaul3, posted 03-10-2014 9:17 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 12:20 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 108 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 12:26 AM Eliyahu has replied
 Message 109 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 12:43 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 112 by AZPaul3, posted 03-11-2014 8:27 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 111 of 139 (721671)
03-11-2014 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by NoNukes
03-11-2014 12:26 AM


Except that the rebutting has already been done by a very capable mathematician.
Bs'd
Except that that rebuttal is rebutted.
But just as we don't declare the lawyer who has the last closing statement the winner, we don't declare the person who published the last article to be the winner either.
You are erroneously mixing up law with science.
See here how it works in science:

"According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over."
Harold Gans, mathematician and professional code breaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 12:26 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2014 9:20 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 10:15 AM Eliyahu has replied
 Message 116 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-11-2014 10:42 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 120 of 139 (721770)
03-12-2014 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Dr Adequate
03-11-2014 10:15 AM


Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer
Except that that rebuttal is rebutted.
No.
Bs'd
Yes.
See here how it works in science:
No.
Yes.
Bring arguments, don't be just a naysayer.

"According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over."
Harold Gans, mathematician and professional code breaker

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-11-2014 10:15 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-12-2014 9:25 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 122 by Taq, posted 03-12-2014 12:03 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
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