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Author Topic:   The Divine signature in the Torah
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 16 of 139 (721276)
03-06-2014 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 12:21 AM


Isn't that amazing?
But the examples you give are much much less amazing than almost any such acrostic formed by mere humans. This one written here without too great an effort by far exceeds - in quantity, and in quality - the rather dull acrostics you wish to attribute to the wisdom of the Almighty. Why He didn't design acrostics better than I can is up to you to say; I'd like to propose the likelihood of God's not really being the author; I feel this elucidates the otherwise hard and obscure problem. You say that God made all the acrostics? Allow me to suggest,sir, that if Yahweh had done so, they'd indubitably be better than these risible efforts, as a four-part-fugue would exceed in its quality the duller nursery rhymes, or as the greatest novels in comparison to a stupid anecdote. To be honest, the odd quirks and features listed in your post look interesting as coincidences; as handiworks of some intelligent artist they really suck.
Buttheexamplesyo
ugivearemuchmuch
lessamazingthana
lmostanysuchacro
sticformedbymere
humans.Thisonewr
ittenherewithout
toogreataneffort
byfarexceeds-inq
uantity,andinqua
lity-theratherdu
llacrosticsyouwi
shtoattributetot
hewisdomoftheAlm
ighty.WhyHedidn'
tdesignacrostics
betterthanIcanis
uptoyoutosay;I'd
liketoproposethe
likelihoodofGod'
snotreallybeingt
heauthor;Ifeelth
iselucidatestheo
therwisehardando
bscureproblem.Yo
usaythatGodmadea
lltheacrostics?A
llowmetosuggest,
sir,thatifYahweh
haddoneso,they'd
indubitablybebet
terthantheserisi
bleefforts,asafo
ur-part-fuguewou
ldexceedinitsqua
litythedullernur
seryrhymes,orast
hegreatestnovels
incomparisontoas
tupidanecdote.To
behonest,theoddq
uirksandfeatures
listedinyourpost
lookinterestinga
scoincidences;as
handiworksofsome
intelligentartis
ttheyreallysuck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 12:21 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 17 of 139 (721278)
03-06-2014 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Eliyahu
03-05-2014 11:24 PM


Re: This is not real
The links contain the information on the Tolstoy and Melville codes as well as other information that debunks your divine cryptography.
As you said about the codes applies also to their refutation. "There is no debate necessary about these codes, because everybody can check them out, they are there. They are a fact." So check them out. They are a fact. Your holy protocols are bunk.
The evidence has been provided, Eli. All you have to do is click a button and read.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 11:24 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Eliyahu, posted 03-07-2014 1:22 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 139 (721298)
03-06-2014 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
03-05-2014 12:52 PM


Eliyahu writes:
... the codes woven into the Torah.
Ah yes, codes - the second-last refuge of the scoundrel, only one step above numerology.
If you pick the appropriate letters from Treasure Island it reveals the Ultimate Truth ™: "There is no God but Long John Silver."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 12:52 PM Eliyahu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by AZPaul3, posted 03-06-2014 1:07 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 19 of 139 (721302)
03-06-2014 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 12:21 AM


The codes I showed you guys, four or five lettered words with a skip between 7 and 50, can. with a bit of patience, be integrated in a text. No divine intervention needed for that one. Still, they are good examples to show that the codes are there, because everybody can check it out for himself.
The argument we disagree with is that it required a divine authority to produce the codes.
And now the code. It just happens to be so that the word esther pops up in the Torah (the Torah is the first five books of the Tanach; Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, that is the most holy part of the Jewish Bible) only once, and that is in Genesis 4:14.
Was this predicted ahead of time? If not, you are just painting the bull's eye around the bullet hole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 12:21 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 20 of 139 (721305)
03-06-2014 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 12:21 AM


Megilah means scroll, and megilat means scroll of.
The scroll with the book of Esther on it is called megilat Esther, which means the scroll of Esther, or Esther scroll. So the only place in the Torah where the word esther appears, there is coded with a skip of 12,111, the amount of letters in the book of Esther, the word scroll, which together makes Esther scroll.
By the way, would you condescend to telll us why, if God truly wrote this, he was forced to employ the expedience of writing "megilah" if the correct word is by accurate Hebrew usage really "megilat"? With so great latitude for His dispositions of all the letters, we'd think that He could do the job better, no?
Bytheway,wouldyo
ucondescendtotel
lluswhy,ifGodtru
lywrotethis,hewa
sforcedtoemployt
heexpedienceofwr
iting"megilah"if
thecorrectwordis
byaccurateHebrew
usagereally"megi
lat"?Withsogreat
latitudeforHisdi
spositionsofallt
heletters,we'dth
inkthatHecoulddo
thejobbetter,no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 12:21 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 139 (721306)
03-06-2014 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 12:21 AM


Skip from there another 12,111 letters, and a lamed (L) will appear. Another 12,111 letters further a tav (T) will appear, and that makes together M-G-L-T, which is the Hebrew word megilat.
This example crosses the border of silly bogs down several feet in the realm of Pathetic. Just pee-poor pathetic. (Pardon my Aramaic).
Having found the letters MGLT, someone looks for an interpretation of them, and finds something, anything. If nothing turns up, then we simply don't mention our attempt to anyone.
That is the secret of Bible Codes. Put the text into a computer and play around with counting algorithms until something turns up. Then claim God did it on purpose. The result is even lamer than those Nostradamus quatrains.
12,111? Really?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 12:21 AM Eliyahu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2014 1:15 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 22 of 139 (721308)
03-06-2014 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
03-06-2014 11:03 AM


If you pick the appropriate letters from Treasure Island it reveals the Ultimate Truth : "There is no God but Long John Silver."
That's it then isn't it? I always wondered why they made such god-awful fish planks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 03-06-2014 11:03 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 23 of 139 (721309)
03-06-2014 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by NoNukes
03-06-2014 12:55 PM


12,111? Really?
Damn right. Me, I go writing stuff that is a whole lot harder to implement and still somehow no-one's ready to grovel, and to worship me as a god. Really, I wonder what signs I have to show to people on this forum before I acquire the respect I deserve.
Damnright.Me,Igow
ritingstuffthatis
awholelotharderto
implementandstill
somehowno-one'sre
adytogrovel,andto
worshipmeasagod.R
eally,Iwonderwhat
signsIhavetoshowt
opeopleonthisforu
mbeforeIacquireth
erespectIdeserve.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2014 12:55 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Dogmafood, posted 03-06-2014 10:16 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2260 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 24 of 139 (721312)
03-06-2014 1:45 PM


Bs'd
And there is more to this story. But for that some more background information is needed.
The villain of the Esther story is the evil Haman. He was a descendant of Agag, the king of the Amalekites: After these things King Ahasverus promoted Haman the Agagite, the son of Hammedatha
Esther 3:1
Agag was, as explained before, the king of the Amalekites: And he took Agag the king of the Amal′ekites alive 1 Sam 15:8. That king Agag of Amalek, is the only Amalakite king we know by name.
The Amelekites were an unpleasant people, with which the Jews had a difficult relationship. When the Jews went out of Egypt, Amalek attacked the Jews: Then came Am′alek and fought with Israel at Reph′idim. 9And Moses said to Joshua, Choose for us men, and go out, fight with Am′alek; tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in my hand. 10So Joshua did as Moses told him, and fought with Am′alek; and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. 11Whenever Moses held up his hand, Israel prevailed; and whenever he lowered his hand, Am′alek prevailed. 12But Moses’ hands grew weary; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat upon it, and Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; so his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. 13And Joshua mowed down Am′alek and his people with the edge of the sword.
14And the Lord said to Moses, Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Am′alek from under heaven. 15And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The Lord is my banner, 16saying, A hand upon the banner of the Lord! The Lord will have war with Am′alek from generation to generation.
So the Jews have a holy war with Amalek, to wipe them all out: Therefore when the Lord your God has given you rest from all your enemies round about, in the land which the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance to possess, you shall blot out the remembrance of Am′alek from under heaven; do not forget
Deut 25:19.
And Amalek is on an unholy trip to wipe out the Jews.
So there is a certain tension between the Jews and Amalek, and the story of the book Esther is just another episode in the war between Israel and Amalek.
We found megilat Esther encoded in the book of Genesis. Now the fact of the matter is that in Genesis the name Amalek appears three times. First in Genesis 14:7; and they conquered the whole territory of the Amalekites.
Amelek is mentioned further in Gen 36, verses 12 and 16. Amalek is written with ayin - mem - lamed - koef, A-M-L-K. Now if we jump from the first time Amalek appears in Gen 14, from the first letter ayin of Amalek, and we skip 12,111 letters, then we get a mem. Skip another 12,111 letters, and we get a lamed. Skip another 12,111 letters, and we get a koef, making together the name Amalek. So from the first letter of the first time Amalek is written in Genesis, the name Amalek is encoded with a skip of 12,111, the amount of letters of the book Esther. And the lest koef of the encoded name Amalek, is the same koef which is the last letter of the second time that the name Amalek appears in Genesis, in chapter 36 vers 12.
Isn't that amazing?
And there is the third time that Amalek is written in Genesis, in chapter 36 vers 16. And there it doesn't just say Amalek, it says aluf Amalek, that means chief Amalek. And we know the name of only one king of Amalek, and that is Agag.
Now the word chief, aluf, is written with aleph, lamed, waav, phe. And if we jump from that first alef 12,111 letters, we get a gimel. Skip another 12,111 letters, and we get another gimel, making A-G-G: Agag.
Isn't that amazing?


"The only reality is mind and observations."

Richard Conn Henry, professor Johns Hopkin department of physics

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 03-06-2014 1:59 PM Eliyahu has replied
 Message 27 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2014 5:13 PM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 29 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2014 6:10 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 25 of 139 (721314)
03-06-2014 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 1:45 PM


Not even going t start reading that until you've answered the people that are calling you out on this garbage.
Quit preaching; it's really, really tedious, harms whatever feeble argument you might have had and it's going to get you banned.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 1:45 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by AZPaul3, posted 03-06-2014 2:44 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 31 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 10:39 PM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 26 of 139 (721317)
03-06-2014 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tangle
03-06-2014 1:59 PM


... and it's going to get you banned.
When?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 03-06-2014 1:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 27 of 139 (721354)
03-06-2014 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 1:45 PM


We found megilat Esther encoded in the book of Genesis.
No.
Isn't that amazing?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 1:45 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 28 of 139 (721357)
03-06-2014 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
03-05-2014 12:52 PM


Eliyahu writes:
There is no debate necessary about these codes, because everybody can check them out, they are there. They are a fact.
it's a fact that you can derive "codes" by this method, yes.
it's also a fact that it's trivial to do with any text.
for instance, here is a fun demonstration that the bible says "moby dick" has similar codes, but that the codes found in "moby dick" say the bible doesn't have codes.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 12:52 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 139 (721358)
03-06-2014 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 1:45 PM


Now if we jump from the first time Amalek appears in Gen 14, from the first letter ayin of Amalek, and we skip 12,111 letters, then we get a mem
In other words, you spotted yourself the 'A' cause you started there, and because you don't really need to find any more vowels you were able to make Amalek out of only three letters.
Not so amazing. It's rather pedestrian bible coding. At least other folks manage to find entire phrases. You find 3 or four letters...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 1:45 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 30 of 139 (721369)
03-06-2014 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
03-06-2014 1:15 PM


Do you come with a promise of eternal happiness and plenty of virgins?
If so, where do I send the cheque?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2014 1:15 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-06-2014 11:55 PM Dogmafood has not replied

  
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