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Author Topic:   what about Pope Francis .. false prophet ??
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 76 of 82 (720504)
02-24-2014 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
02-24-2014 12:32 PM


Re: only one body of Christ
Faith writes:
Ministers are not leaders in the sense that the Pope is considered to be a leader, but that sense is a sense in which he is usurping the role of Jesus Christ as head of the Church.
But, if we look at things, we don't see this at all.
The Pope isn't considered to be a leader in the sense that he is usurping the role of Jesus Christ as head of the Church.
So... you're simply mistaken.
Looking at things further... you seem to treat your Ministers in exactly the same way that Catholics treat their Pope.
That is... you respect their authority on how scripture is interpreted.
Neither of you take that authority at face value.
Both of you question and debate that authority in an ongoing, respectful manner.
It seems to me that if you (and dadman?) have an issue with how the Catholic's treat the Pope... you should really have the same issue with how you treat your own Ministers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 02-24-2014 12:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 02-24-2014 1:32 PM Stile has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 77 of 82 (720505)
02-24-2014 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Stile
02-24-2014 1:13 PM


Re: only one body of Christ
ABE: First, no minister's interpretation of the Bible is regarded as infallible by anyone, although the Pope claims infallibility for himself. /ABE
In any case It's not about how the people treat the leader, it's about the attributes ascribed to the leader by the church's doctrine, and in the case of the RCC the Pope is called "the head of the Church." Back when I was reading up on these things before I was a Christian but was on my way there, I thought I was going to become a Catholic and read quite a bit by Catholic theologians. At one point I ran across that designation for the Pope as "head of the Church" and it bothered me so I prayed about it and the next time I opened the Bible it just happened to open to one of the two places where Christ is called "head of the Church," which I took to be His answer to my prayer. But of course that's only for me. It shouldn't be too hard to find Catholic doctrine officially spelling out these things. I'll eventually have to track it all down. There's also plenty written about the Pope by the Protestant Reformers, who, remember, had originally been Catholic priests and had no intention of leaving the RCC until they began to find out how far the papacy had gone from the Biblical revelation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Stile, posted 02-24-2014 1:13 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Stile, posted 02-24-2014 1:57 PM Faith has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 78 of 82 (720506)
02-24-2014 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
02-24-2014 1:32 PM


Re: only one body of Christ
Faith writes:
First, no minister's interpretation of the Bible is regarded as infallible by anyone, although the Pope claims infallibility for himself.
Yes. It has happened. Does it happen all the time? No.
Have ministers claimed themselves as infallible ("my way or the highway")? Of course they have. Some almost every day. All the time? No.
Again... looks the same to me.
In any case It's not about how the people treat the leader, it's about the attributes ascribed to the leader by the church's doctrine...
What? No, that's not what it's about.
That's what you want to make it about because you think it adds credence to your conclusion.
What it's about is how things actually are.
How things actually are is how people treat the leader, and how the leader treats the people.
It shouldn't be too hard to find Catholic doctrine officially spelling out these things. I'll eventually have to track it all down.
Why track it down? Who cares what's written in what doctrine as long as both Popes and Ministers are doing the same thing?
Are you trying to say that acting infallible is fine as long as you don't be honest about it and write it down? How strange.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 02-24-2014 1:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 02-24-2014 2:15 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 79 of 82 (720507)
02-24-2014 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Stile
02-24-2014 1:57 PM


Re: only one body of Christ
It matters, Stile. Actually they are not doing the same thing at all. The Pope has been officially declared as infallible on doctrinal and moral issues, in official RCC doctrine. Nothing like that is the case with Protestant ministers. There is absolutely nothing like the Pope in Protestant circles, and the Protestant Reformers denounced the papacy in no uncertain terms.
ABE: I do want to track it down because it's important to understand the RCC official position and be able to document it. /ABE
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Stile, posted 02-24-2014 1:57 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 02-24-2014 2:25 PM Faith has replied

Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 80 of 82 (720509)
02-24-2014 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
02-24-2014 2:15 PM


Re: only one body of Christ
You keep saying this, but I can guarantee you that from the perspective of the individuals in the pews, the Pope is only infallible when his ideas agree with an individual's views. Before the Catholic Church accepted evolution as the best view for the diversity of life, many Catholics had already began to mix this concept in with their theology, prior to waiting on the infallible Pope to change his mind. So, in reality it is only on paper that the Pope is considered infalliable.
Ask a lot of the Right wing Catholics right now how infallible they feel the Pope is on his recent denouncment of trickle-down economics and you will get an answer that shows you the Catholic population does not obey every statement issued by the Pope to be true. It is written down that way because it is a holdover from the ancient Catholic church, when claiming infallibility allowed them to issue statements and punishments that gave them the means to ensure control.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 02-24-2014 2:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 02-24-2014 2:30 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 81 of 82 (720510)
02-24-2014 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
02-24-2014 2:25 PM


Re: only one body of Christ
Again, what the people in the pews think isn't the point. I have the impression that a lot of official RCC doctrine is completely unknown to everyday Catholics and that they often disregard what they do know, especially American Catholics. But that doesn't stop it from being official doctrine that the leadership of the RCC do take very seriously. Including all those official anathemas against Protestant doctrine from the Council of Trent that are still on the books, and the various declarations that the Pope has the right to order "heretics" killed if necessary, which was the basis of the Inquisition. That's still on the books too. I'll believe all that is as meaningless as you apparently believe it is when they officially repudiate the written doctrines and take them off the books.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 02-24-2014 2:25 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 82 (720519)
02-24-2014 4:06 PM


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