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Author | Topic: Why the Flood Never Happened | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: As I've said the river cuts into the uplift because it's in the way. And there's no big mystery about the rates matching. All that is necessary is that the uplift is slow enough and the rest will follow.
quote: I've already offered an explanation. What's wrong with it ?
quote: The more direct the impact, the more force will be directed against the surface. That is simple physics based on simple geometry. The greater the force, the greater the erosive effect. Your "general rule" simply ignores what's going on to slow the water. Think about it. If the water is slowing, a force must be acting on it. If a force is acting on it there must be a reactive force exerted by the water. Newton's laws of motion tell us that much.
quote: It is necessary to point out that simply adding a slight upward slope to the riverbed will not automatically cause the river to depart its course.
quote: Obviously you have no understanding at all. There is no violation of the law of gravity involved.
quote: No, there's another factor - the geometry which determines how the erosive force is applied to the surface. Also, think about this. Consider a block of wood being filed. Now imagine a force pushing the far end of the block up against the file (while the other end remains where it is). What is going to happen ? Edited by PaulK, : Added some clarification
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: So basically you're upset that people care more about the truth than your pride.
quote: I don't see how. I mean, on what basis do you include that there should be more frequent tectonic events on that region ?
quote: Obviously the Flood is a last-ditch desperate attempt to account for the geological and fossil record by YECs. But it's an obvious failure. Even your own arguments implicitly admit as much, by refusing to consider anything but the most superficial view of the rocks and the fossil record.
quote: Sure Faith, you love it too much to give it up, even though it's been refuted. Just one more sign that you value your pride over the truth - and expect everyone else to, as well.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: Trying to cast doubt on scientific conclusions by calling them "theories" is hardly a serious argument. Pointing out that the argument is ignorant and false is a valid response, and hardly "hand waving". If creationists are too proud to admit their errors, then that is their problem.
quote: Fortunately science has mechanisms for dealing with that problem. Unless you define "better" as being whatever you happen to like. But that would place more weight on prejudice not less. Creationism lacks such mechanisms, which explains why it is in such a dreadful state.
quote: Of course you're wrong because there's nothing there demanding that principles or the testing derive from direct observation. Of course, quite a lot of the principles in evolution and geology are tested by direct observation, where that's possible so even that objectin fails to stand.
quote: Can't we apply what we know about the behaviour of water, for instance, to work out a lot? Or do you object to that because the results aren't what you would like?
quote: Noting that those means might include use of the Large Hadron Collider - or construction of an equally powerful facility - what's your problem with either the Old Earth or evolution? Both are open to testing - and have passed many tests.
quote: Writing that in capitals doesn't make it any less wrong.
quote: Being unable to perform a test that you would like performed doesn't mean that no tests are possible. Indeed, we should ask why we find the pattern of morphological features that we do without genetic relationships? Do you have a testable alternative explanation? At least we can test the relationship between genetic relationships and physical form in existing species.
quote: Of course we can test radiometric methods. For instance we can apply multiple methods to rocks of similar age and see if they agree. Ask RAZD about that. Or we can apply the same method to rocks where we have an idea of the relative age (from the geometric relationships) and see if the radiometric results are consistent with what we already know. To sum up, the "just a theory" argument is hopelessly wrong. The argument about direct observation is a different argument - and also wrong. Not only because it ignore the role of direct observation in geology and evolutionary science, bit because it makes a categorical distinction that does not exist. All observations are indirect to some degree - a witness experiences only the effects of a past event, not the event itself.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: I asked Faith that, a while back. She replied with an illustration (from Lyell, IIRC) using layers of cloth topped by a book. She insists that the upper layers were "rigid enough" to avoid deformation without really being rigid. Which looks like a contradiction to me.
quote: I've tried pointing that out, too. She just ignored it. So far as I can tell, her position is that she likes it, so it must be true. Which seems to be her attitude in most things discussed here.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: But that pressure will be greater on the deeper rocks, so surely it should be the upper strata that are distorted, not the lower ? And obviously it doesn't explain why the transition is so abrupt either. There's no sudden step in the pressure, that gradually reduces as you go up the strata.
quote: As I pointed out at the time, that relies on the rigidity of the book compared to the cloth. But you don't argue for such a difference in rigidity, and I don't think that there is any reason to think that that is even possibly true.
quote: If that were correct, the book would prevent the upper layers of cloth from distorting. But it doesn't.
quote: This just obviously doesn't work. You need the lower strata to be much less rigid than the higher strata that remain undistorted. But the pressure will be greater, not less.
quote: Edge is making that distinction, because it HAS to be there for your model to work !
quote: According to elementary physics the upward force must be greater than the downward pressure for the uplift to occur at all - and the downward pressure will increase with depth. How does this fit with your idea ?
quote: Firstly you ignored half of edge's comment. Why DON'T we see fragments eroded from the upper strata ? And how does the debris from the lower strata become embedded in the upper strata - and how do they become rounded ? Conventional geology explains all these things, easily.
quote: You're being asked to explain why the Claron formation can't have been laid after the tilting (and it seems clear to me that it was).
quote: It's not an observation, it's an interpretation. To my eye the Claron formation was clearly laid after the tilting at Hurricane fault. Nothing else makes sense. Edited by PaulK, : Correct a tag
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