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Author Topic:   Christianity is Morally Bankrupt
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 271 of 652 (715356)
01-04-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by jar
01-04-2014 11:09 AM


Club Christian god deserves pity?
Why would such a god deserve anything more than pity?
Who are we to determine what God deserves or does not deserve?
I think you have a wrong idea of God when you insist that the book says that we should judge Him.
How did we earn such a right? How could we even begin to have the credentials to judge the Creator Of All Things Seen And Unseen?
why would we dare think that God deserved pity anyway?
Who made US God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by jar, posted 01-04-2014 11:09 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by jar, posted 01-04-2014 12:52 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 272 of 652 (715361)
01-04-2014 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
01-04-2014 11:50 AM


Re: Club Christian god deserves pity?
Who are we to determine what God deserves or does not deserve?
I am a human.
I think you have a wrong idea of God when you insist that the book says that we should judge Him.
What does the evidence say? Have you read the Bible? In Genesis 3 does the god character say we have gained the capability to know right from wrong? Does Abraham question the god character's morality? Does Jacob struggle with the god character? Does 'Israel' mean "Struggles with God"?
How did we earn such a right? How could we even begin to have the credentials to judge the Creator Of All Things Seen And Unseen?
Adam & Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. That gave us such a right AND also gave us the needed capabilities.
why would we dare think that God deserved pity anyway?
We dare because we are human.
Who made US God?
We are not God.
The problem Phat is that so much of Christianity is actually a dumbed down product. It was created to be easily marketed. But remember, Jesus has almost nothing to do with Christianity; Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 01-04-2014 11:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 8:12 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 273 of 652 (715400)
01-05-2014 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by jar
01-04-2014 12:52 PM


Re: Club Christian god deserves pity?
Using logic, the Creator of all seen and unseen would not steer us wrong. He gave us brains initially, and my hope is that He would help us. Why should He help us? The core of my belief and hope in life, love, and liberty is that God, if God exists, is good and wants us to survive and prosper.
Were this not true, I sure as hell wouldn't trust humanity. Studies done in New Orleans, after Katrina showed that anarchy and lawlessness surfaced in as little as four days.
Another reason for my faith? My hope and prayer would be that I didn't become that which I feared. (With apologies to the Somali pirate comment)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by jar, posted 01-04-2014 12:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by jar, posted 01-05-2014 9:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 275 by Tangle, posted 01-05-2014 10:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 276 by jar, posted 01-05-2014 10:09 AM Phat has replied
 Message 280 by ringo, posted 01-05-2014 1:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 274 of 652 (715405)
01-05-2014 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-05-2014 8:12 AM


Re: Club Christian god deserves pity?
We have brains for a reason and that is to use them. Stop and think.
Does a state of anarchy still exist in New Orleans? Was it not humanity that restored New Orleans?
Humans decided that lawlessness and anarchy were not the answer and humans, humanity, restored order and reason.
You do not help kids by doing for them, you help by teaching them how to do it themselves.
The problem really is that much of Christianity (particularly the Calvinist traditions) is morally bankrupt and self defeating. It starts and ends with a losers concept and should be pitied when it actually produces losers.
It is time to stop whining that your shoes are untied and instead learn to tie them. Reality is Big Kids school, no longer Kindergarten.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 8:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 275 of 652 (715407)
01-05-2014 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-05-2014 8:12 AM


Re: Club Christian god deserves pity?
Phat writes:
Why should He help us? The core of my belief and hope in life, love, and liberty is that God, if God exists, is good and wants us to survive and prosper.
If that was true he wouldn't also have created multiple sclerosis.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 8:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 276 of 652 (715408)
01-05-2014 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-05-2014 8:12 AM


learn how to use reason and logic
I need to add one more item. You often say stuff like "Using logic, the Creator of all seen and unseen would not steer us wrong."
HUH?
How is that position arrived at logically?
And "The core of my belief and hope in life, love, and liberty is that God, if God exists, is good and wants us to survive and prosper. "
Again, how is that logically derived?
Saying you use logic and actually using logic are two different things.
Why would the Creator of all seen and unseen logically treat humans differently than other species? Where are the dinos? The mega fauna? Saber Tooth cats and mastadons?
Logically, why would humans be treated differently?
Are you confusing wishful thinking with logic and reason?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 8:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 11:36 AM jar has replied
 Message 286 by Phat, posted 01-09-2014 5:45 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 277 of 652 (715414)
01-05-2014 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by jar
01-05-2014 10:09 AM


Re: learn how to use reason and logic
It all flows through Jesus Christ. The creator of all seen and unseen cannot be known or understood apart from Jesus Christ---at least for we humans. Perhaps whales have a different method of sharing communion.
But then again, God is not simply a product of our imagination....I could be wrong.
Add by edit: Do you believe that God is alienated from our idea of Him? If so, is it possible that Jesus death was every bit as important as His life...in order to provide reconciliation?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by jar, posted 01-05-2014 10:09 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by jar, posted 01-05-2014 12:43 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 278 of 652 (715417)
01-05-2014 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
01-05-2014 11:36 AM


Re: learn how to use reason and logic
again, where is even a semblance of reason or logic in ...
Phat writes:
It all flows through Jesus Christ. The creator of all seen and unseen cannot be known or understood apart from Jesus Christ---at least for we humans. Perhaps whales have a different method of sharing communion.
But then again, God is not simply a product of our imagination....I could be wrong.
Phat writes:
Add by edit: Do you believe that God is alienated from our idea of Him? If so, is it possible that Jesus death was every bit as important as His life...in order to provide reconciliation?
HUH?
What does that even mean?
What does any of that have to do with the questions asked in Message 272 or Message 274 or Message 276 or any other post in this topic?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 11:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 1:37 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 652 (715420)
01-05-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-04-2014 11:45 AM


Re: Spare Change Mentality.
Phat writes:
Lets assume that,largely due to complaints such as yours, God allowed you other lines to stand in.
What I'm saying is that the whole concept of God "allowing" lines to stand in is unacceptable. God can drag me in in chains if He wants to but I will not volunteer.
Where's my "free will" to abstain?
Phat writes:
If GOD exists, how do you expect to be judged?
As I've said in many other threads, I would expect God to judge me according to how I treat His people (and His creation in general) - and by "His people" I do NOT mean the jaywill definition of an elite clique. I mean ALL people.
What else could I do "for" God?
Phat writes:
All I know is I don't deserve to be broke...
Who does?
Edited by ringo, : Doubled a quote (double the fun).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-04-2014 11:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 1:34 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 280 of 652 (715421)
01-05-2014 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-05-2014 8:12 AM


Re: Club Christian god deserves pity?
Phat writes:
Using logic, the Creator of all seen and unseen would not steer us wrong.
He steered the dinosaurs wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 8:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 281 of 652 (715424)
01-05-2014 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by ringo
01-05-2014 1:23 PM


Re: Spare Change Mentality.
ringo writes:
Where's my "free will" to abstain?
You didnt have a choice to exist in the first place. What makes you have this desire to choose your destiny? Could it be that you have a little bit of that desire to be your own Creator?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 01-05-2014 1:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by ringo, posted 01-05-2014 1:41 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 282 of 652 (715425)
01-05-2014 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by jar
01-05-2014 12:43 PM


Re: learn how to use reason and logic
What does any of that have to do with the questions asked in Message 272 or Message 274 or Message 276 or any other post in this topic?
We don't always get to frame our own topics.
But in reference to the moral bankruptcy of Christianity, don't you think you are taking too big a step in calling out all members of clubs christian that have Calvinist roots?
I swear you must have had a Jewish Mother!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by jar, posted 01-05-2014 12:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by jar, posted 01-05-2014 3:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 283 of 652 (715426)
01-05-2014 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Phat
01-05-2014 1:34 PM


Re: Spare Change Mentality.
Phat writes:
What makes you have this desire to choose your destiny?
It isn't a desire. It's a responsibility.
Phat writes:
Could it be that you have a little bit of that desire to be your own Creator?
You just said, "You didnt have a choice to exist in the first place." Make up your mind.
My parents may or may not have created me by choice. Now that I am grown up I have a responsibility to live my own life, not to be a dependent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 1:34 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 1:49 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 284 of 652 (715428)
01-05-2014 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by ringo
01-05-2014 1:41 PM


Re: Spare Change Mentality.
ok, so you believe that you have a responsibility to create your own destiny. Better?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by ringo, posted 01-05-2014 1:41 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 285 of 652 (715442)
01-05-2014 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Phat
01-05-2014 1:37 PM


Re: learn how to use reason and logic
Phat writes:
jar writes:
What does any of that have to do with the questions asked in Message 272 or Message 274 or Message 276 or any other post in this topic?
We don't always get to frame our own topics.
I thought the person who started the topic framed the topic? Isn't the topic "Christianity is Morally Bankrupt?"
So you have no response or will not respond to the questions or the topic. Got it.
Phat writes:
But in reference to the moral bankruptcy of Christianity, don't you think you are taking too big a step in calling out all members of clubs christian that have Calvinist roots?
Not at all. Calvinism is a theology based on the assumption that humans are failures, predestined to be failures and incapable of actually doing anything of worth or merit.
Phat writes:
I swear you must have had a Jewish Mother!
You mean like Jesus?
Nope, my mother was a Presbyterian.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Phat, posted 01-05-2014 1:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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