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Author Topic:   Why the Flood Never Happened
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 226 of 1896 (713747)
12-16-2013 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by New Cat's Eye
12-16-2013 12:13 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
I'm glad they can find coal though I don't see what that has to do with unknowables about the past. I don't think they had a lot of problem finding coal before Old Earth theory came along did they? But if the Grand Canyon was clearly not laid down layer by layer over millions of years that wrecks Old Earth theory and whatever science gets right is something else.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2013 12:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2013 12:38 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 229 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2013 12:55 PM Faith has replied
 Message 230 by JonF, posted 12-16-2013 12:57 PM Faith has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 227 of 1896 (713750)
12-16-2013 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Faith
12-16-2013 12:20 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
Faith writes:
I don't think they had a lot of problem finding coal before Old Earth theory came along did they?
That was pretty much at the beginning of the industrial revolution and the coal they found then was exposed at the surface or discovered as a result of mining for other minerals.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 12:20 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by JonF, posted 12-16-2013 12:55 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 228 of 1896 (713753)
12-16-2013 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Tanypteryx
12-16-2013 12:38 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
IOW we would be far from finding the coal we have found without mainstream geology.
How would Faith find coal? Prayer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2013 12:38 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2013 1:25 PM JonF has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 229 of 1896 (713754)
12-16-2013 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Faith
12-16-2013 12:20 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
I'm glad they can find coal though I don't see what that has to do with unknowables about the past.
Scientists can use what you are referring to as "speculations" and make accurate predictions of where coal can be found.
If their "speculations" were really just speculations, then they wouldn't be so right all the time and their track record would be bad.
But its not, because they actually do know what they are talking about. People really can figure out stuff about the past without any witnesses.
I don't think they had a lot of problem finding coal before Old Earth theory came along did they?
Not just stumbling across some coal, but learning about what kind of environment causes coal to form, and then using that knowledge to locate where coal will be found if a particular location is drilled.
If you are correct that its just "speculations" about the past, then there'd be no reason why the scientists can accurately predict where it will be found.
And their accurate predictions are based on the fact that it takes 100's of millions of years for coal to form:
Scientists have studied how those processes work today and they apply that knowledge to what we know about the past. They can use those "specualtion" to make accurate predictions. That means that they are correct.
But if the Grand Canyon was clearly not laid down layer by layer over millions of years that wrecks Old Earth theory and whatever science gets right is something else.
The strata that the Grand Canyon cuts through was laid down layer by layer over millions of years. That's not just a wild speculation on the scientists' part, that's a conclusion that was reached through the study of the evidence from the layers, themselves, and the processes that form strata like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 12:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 230 of 1896 (713755)
12-16-2013 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Faith
12-16-2013 12:20 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
But if the Grand Canyon was clearly not laid down layer by layer over millions of years that wrecks Old Earth theory and whatever science gets right is something else.
We still have only your assertions that the GC was not laid down layer by layer over millions of years, and none of your "explanations" are in accord with the observed facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 12:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:37 PM JonF has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 231 of 1896 (713758)
12-16-2013 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by JonF
12-16-2013 12:55 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
JonF writes:
How would Faith find coal? Prayer?
Nope, she would look for pictures in a book.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by JonF, posted 12-16-2013 12:55 PM JonF has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 232 of 1896 (713760)
12-16-2013 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by JonF
12-16-2013 12:57 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
You obviously haven't bothered to read or think about anything I've written, or you can't understand it due to theory-blindness which I think is a lot of th eproblem here, because there is PLENTY of evidence there from observed facts that the Old Earth doesn't work.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by JonF, posted 12-16-2013 12:57 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by JonF, posted 12-16-2013 3:14 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 267 by Atheos canadensis, posted 12-16-2013 8:37 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 233 of 1896 (713761)
12-16-2013 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by New Cat's Eye
12-16-2013 12:55 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
"what kind of environment causes coal" doesn't require any idea about millions of years.
I've SHOWN that the layers wree not laid down over millions of yeaers. You just have to THINK about the evidence given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2013 12:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2013 1:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 236 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2013 1:54 PM Faith has replied
 Message 251 by JonF, posted 12-16-2013 3:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 234 of 1896 (713762)
12-16-2013 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by PaulK
12-16-2013 12:17 PM


Re: Erosion of Great Unconformity Garner video
So where's the evidence for that?
In the fact that the boulder traveled a wuarter of a mile from its origin pointl ought to be sufficient evidence. Plus the fact that there is no way for it to have gotten into the sediments otherwise than being broken off along with the scraping between the layers. You said it's common to find rocks from lower levels in higher ones. That should call the whole theory into question which of course I'd have taken note of if it were all that common but oddly it's never come up. And it should be pretty hard to explain on Old Earth theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by PaulK, posted 12-16-2013 12:17 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by PaulK, posted 12-16-2013 2:13 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 235 of 1896 (713763)
12-16-2013 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Faith
12-16-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
"what kind of environment causes coal" doesn't require any idea about millions of years.
Sure it does. Didn't you look at the picture?
Ancients forests from 100's of millions of years ago were converted into coal over those millions of years.
I've SHOWN that the layers wree not laid down over millions of yeaers. You just have to THINK about the evidence given.
I've thought about what you've posted, and nothing you've posted shows that the layers were not laid down over millions of years.
Its not that we are blind or biased, its that you're wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 2:08 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 236 of 1896 (713764)
12-16-2013 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Faith
12-16-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
Faith writes:
I've SHOWN that the layers wree not laid down over millions of yeaers. You just have to THINK about the evidence given.
No, you have not "shown that the layers were not laid down over millions of years".
You have made up a bunch of silly, blind assertions that you fantasized in your head and that are completely un-evidenced.
Not only are they un-evidenced but they are completely refuted by the actual evidence that anyone can go and look at and touch.
There is not one single post in this thread where YOU have shown anything....no evidence, nada, ziltch. That you could think and say that you have shown anything, with a straight face shows just how deluded you are.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:57 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 237 of 1896 (713765)
12-16-2013 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Tanypteryx
12-16-2013 1:54 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
Obviously you haven't read or thought about any of it. I noticed you even jeered my post about the fault lines which was agreeing with one of YOUr guys. You aren't reading or thinking about anything I've said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2013 1:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-16-2013 2:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 238 of 1896 (713767)
12-16-2013 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by New Cat's Eye
12-16-2013 1:53 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
No you haven't thought about anhy of it because I've given good arguments on good evidence.
Those forests are not millions of hyars old. And you can actrually SEE coal seams forming between the layers in road cuts in some places in the country. Coal is caused by the compression of vegetation which would have happened at certain layers in the Flood. One thing that does seem to be true is that the same layers occur at the same levels so you only need to know the level, not the age.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2013 1:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-16-2013 2:21 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 239 of 1896 (713768)
12-16-2013 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
12-16-2013 1:48 PM


Re: Erosion of Great Unconformity Garner video
quote:
In the fact that the boulder traveled a wuarter of a mile from its origin pointl ought to be sufficient evidence.
That rather suggests that it was transported on the surface, which doesn't support your view at all.
quote:
Plus the fact that there is no way for it to have gotten into the sediments otherwise than being broken off along with the scraping between the layers.
I'd say that it was eroded out of a surface formation and moved along the surface, settling onto the sediment as it was deposited.
quote:
You said it's common to find rocks from lower levels in higher ones. That should call the whole theory into question which of course I'd have taken note of if it were all that common but oddly it's never come up. And it should be pretty hard to explain on Old Earth theory.
All you need for fragments of older rocks to be found in younger rocks is for pieces to be eroded out of the older rocks and deposited in a place where the new rocks will eventually form. Given an old Earth it would be amazing if it DIDN'T happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 2:20 PM PaulK has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 240 of 1896 (713769)
12-16-2013 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
12-16-2013 1:57 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
Faith writes:
Obviously you haven't read or thought about any of it.
I have read it and thought about it, but there is no evidence to back you up. Just you saying the same thing over and over and then whining that "You aren't reading or thinking about anything I've said."
After reading and thinking about what you are saying, I am saying that you are wrong and that is what the evidence all shows.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 12-16-2013 1:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
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