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Author Topic:   Hello everyone
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 271 of 380 (712975)
12-09-2013 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Dr Adequate
12-08-2013 11:08 PM


Re: uniformitarianism / strata; GC
Golly gee, they can "CLEARLY IDENTIFY EROSIONAL SURFACES" but as usual you are simply refusing to grasp my simple meaning. They obviously have to work hard to identify those erosional surfaces because they are nothing like the erosion we see on the surface of the earth, all they are seeing is some rivulets between the layers and other minor disturbances that show runoff between them.
THAT IS NOT THE SORT OF EROSION THAT WOULD HAVE OCCURRED HAD ANY OF THOSE LAYERS EVER BEEN EXPOSED AS SURFACE FOR ANY LOENGTH OF TIME. STAND BACK FROM THE WALL FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, and consider that the CANYON ITSELF is the ONLY ACTUAL REAL SERIOUS EROSION the strata have undergone since they were laid down. Stop playing your stupid obfuscating games. What I'm saying is OBVIOUS.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-08-2013 11:08 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 272 of 380 (712976)
12-09-2013 12:13 AM


For some reason I can only get part of message 268 without any of the buttons needed to reply to it and I don't get messages 269 or 270 at all. Probably due to a problem I've been having with my browser.\
But to answer what I can see of 268, the usual obfuscating idiocy from Dr. A., yes the layers are THE SAME as to form, and that is obvious to the naked eye too. Good grief stop your game playing. They are the same in that they are all horizontal flat layers of rock. They are different in that they are different KINDS of rock with different fossil contents.
And unless you really are a blithering idiot you knew that already but your entire style of posting seems to be to make sure you garble up everything I say.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 273 of 380 (712977)
12-09-2013 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by foreveryoung
12-08-2013 10:52 PM


Re: uniformitarianism / strata; GC
How could that be anything else but the lithified remains of an ancient beach?
Well, it's lithified and apparently it looks like some beaches. Beyond that there's no reason to think it's any more ancient than about 4300 years old, and was somehow created in the Flood, probably between waves.
Getting it lithified should be a problem on your model, though it's not a problem on mine, since such a pattern could have been created as a wave receded or the tide was out for some period of time, and then it would have been filled in by new sediments brought in on the next wave, which would preserve its structure, and the incredible height to which the strata rose would explain how it was all eventually solidified.
You aren't going to get lithification if such a pattern sat on the surface for very long. Go on, show me one of those beaches that exist now with that pattern that has lithified in place or even preserved its pattern over a short period of time. Ha ha.
But again, these things are red herrings once it has already been shown that the structure of the strata as a whole couldn't possibly have been produced by long ages. Also, go think about the Grand Canyon being cut into a mile deep stack of them, all remaining so nicely horizontal don't you know, if they are supposed to be a billion years old at that point. What a joke. At the very least that fact absolutely destroys uniformitarianism, but really it destroys the whole OE theory.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by foreveryoung, posted 12-08-2013 10:52 PM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2013 10:33 AM Faith has replied

Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(4)
Message 274 of 380 (712979)
12-09-2013 12:50 AM


Faith's 'arguments' (about those photos placed in this thread ) remind me about a great post from Dr Adequate some time ago. It explained exactly what ‘uniformatism’ is and how it is used by geologists.
EvC Forum: Would ID/Creationists need new, independant dating techniques??
quote:
Doesn't the "creationist literature" seem a bit forced, even to you?
Let me explain what I mean. To an actualist like myself, nothing is more simple and straightforward than sedimentology. Those things that look like lithified flaser deposits? They're lithified flaser deposits. The things that look eactly like lithified sand dunes? They're lithified sand dunes. The things that look exactly like lithified varves of proglacial lakes? They're lithified varves of proglacial lakes. The rocks that look just like welded tuff? They are welded tuff. The stuff that looks exactly like glacial moraines? Those would be glacial moraines. Chalk looks exactly like the product of millions of years of deposition of coccoliths, and I have an explanation for that. It is the product of millions of years deposition of coccoliths.
And you guys want to explain this by one singular event. All these things are somehow consequences of your imaginary magic flood.
Don't you yourself find this attitude rather difficult?
Let's do another analogy. Walking through the Serengeti, I notice the footprints of lions and zebras and elephants and so forth. I determine that these are the footprints of elephants and so forth. I see that what I identify as the footprints of elephants are the exact same shape as the feet of elephants. I note that the stride length of these footprints are exactly consistent with the stride length of elephants. I watch elephants walk, and look at the footprints they leave, and I see that these impressions are exactly the same as those that I see in the Serengeti. I do the same with the footprints of the zebras and the lions and the giraffes.
Then some man comes up to me and states that despite all this, these footprints were left by one single animal that no-one has ever seen.
This man is a creationist.
Edited by Pressie, : Spelling

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:03 AM Pressie has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 275 of 380 (712980)
12-09-2013 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Pressie
12-09-2013 12:50 AM


You can't HAVE a lithified sand dune for pete's sake. Every sand dune on the face of this earth is NOT lithified. What you are seeing in the rocks is the grains of sand that form sand dunes all collected in one place which causes them to lie the way they do in dunes because of how the grains got shaped, but there is no such thing as a LITHIFIED SAND DUNE. It is an impossibility. The only lithified beach you could possibly see is one that was rapidly filled in by new sediments to preserve its form. There is no such thing as a lithified beach on the surface of the earth. The footprints are of course footprints, rapidly filled in and preserved between tides during the Flood.
But again all this is red herring stuff once you appreciate the fact that the very structure of the stack of strata as I have been describing it, and the cutting of the Grand Canyon after a mile depth of them were laid down with no other disturbance of a sort that would show any of them was ever actually earth's surface, all that proves the Old Earth theory is delusional.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 12:50 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 1:09 AM Faith has replied

Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(2)
Message 276 of 380 (712981)
12-09-2013 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by Faith
12-09-2013 1:03 AM


Yes, you can. We see them all over. Seen those photo's provided on this thread? They are lithified beach deposits.
If it looks like a lithified sand dune, it surely is not a chocolate cake from your mommy's kitchen. It is a lithified sand dune.
Do you even know what the word lithified means? Let me give you a hint: it doesn't mean 'magic'.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:03 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:12 AM Pressie has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 277 of 380 (712982)
12-09-2013 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Pressie
12-09-2013 1:09 AM


Oh really, and where did you find this lithified sand dune? Buried in the strata, no? Or once buried in the strata perhaps? Like the Coconino Sandstone layer which gets called a lithified sand dune, but is just a very deep layer of sand grains that solidified into sandstone. It is NOT a lithified sand dune.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 1:09 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 1:24 AM Faith has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6418
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 278 of 380 (712983)
12-09-2013 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Faith
12-09-2013 12:13 AM


For some reason I can only get part of message 268 without any of the buttons needed to reply to it and I don't get messages 269 or 270 at all. Probably due to a problem I've been having with my browser.
I'm having the same difficulty. So it is probably a site problem (evcforum problem), rather than a problem with your browser.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 12:13 AM Faith has not replied

Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(2)
Message 279 of 380 (712984)
12-09-2013 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
12-09-2013 1:12 AM


Sure. Lithified sand dunes in the Clarens Formation, Karoo Sequence.
Some of the many, many references ( I just reference two groundbreaking of many, many studies here):
Du Toit, A.L. 1918. The zones of the Karoo System and their distribution: Proc. Geol. Soc S. Afr., 21, p xviii-xxxvii
Beukes, N.J. 1969. Die sedimentologie van Etage Holkranssandsteen, Sisteem Karoo: M.Sc. thesis, Univ. Orange Free State.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:50 AM Pressie has replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2600
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 280 of 380 (712985)
12-09-2013 1:32 AM


Something VERY WEIRD is going on with the EvC softeware from my vantage point in Windows 8.1. Dr. A's message #168 in this thread is missing the bottom of it and everything after it is also missing. I've tried several times over a span of a few hours to get past 168, but nothing happens.
Oh well, perhaps I should reboot.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:52 AM xongsmith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 281 of 380 (712986)
12-09-2013 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Pressie
12-09-2013 1:24 AM


You are being of course as vague as possible, but the Karoo system is full of fossils and therefore represents the Flood deposits which would include lithified sediments. As I said, which you apparently ignored, you will not find lithified beaches or dunes on the SURFACE of the earth, only in the strata and wherever lithified sediments with fossil contents are found, that is, where they were rapidly buried so as to become lithified and the buried creatures fossilized. That describes the Karoo.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 1:24 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 2:02 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 282 of 380 (712987)
12-09-2013 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by xongsmith
12-09-2013 1:32 AM


You can't get to the next page, that starts with message 271? NWR and I have been having the same problem but only for part of 268 plus 269 and 270.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by xongsmith, posted 12-09-2013 1:32 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by xongsmith, posted 12-09-2013 1:59 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 299 by nwr, posted 12-09-2013 8:22 AM Faith has not replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2600
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 283 of 380 (712988)
12-09-2013 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
12-09-2013 1:52 AM


I can get to this page! Yay!
I think Dr. A made a bad link when he creebled the tail end of the url code in message 168. It's supposed to end left bracket-slash-u-r-l-right bracket, but he ended it left bracket-u-r-l-=, so the EvC code is looking for an url within an url!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:52 AM Faith has not replied

Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(3)
Message 284 of 380 (712989)
12-09-2013 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
12-09-2013 1:50 AM


Faith writes:
You are being of course as vague as possible, but the Karoo system is full of fossils
Not being vague at all. Those references are there for you to read. The Karoo Sequence does contain fossils; they are in sequence from the bottom to the top. Both plant and animal fossils. In different members and formations. Those members, formations and groups also have a pattern from bottom to top...
... and therefore represents the Flood deposits which would include lithified sediments.
Err, all lithified sediments are lithified sediments.
... As I said, which you apparently ignored, you will not find lithified beaches or dunes on the SURFACE of the earth, ....
Not ignored at all. It's obvious that you don't know what the word 'lithified' means.
... only in the strata and wherever lithified sediments with fossil contents are found, that is, where they were rapidly buried so as to become lithified and the buried creatures fossilized.
Err. Hope you do know that organic material normally have to get buried for fossilisation to occur.
That describes the Karoo.
Nope.
Have you ever seen a Karoo 'rock'? Hope you do know that tens of thousands of geologists have actually studied those rocks, themselves?
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 1:50 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 2:06 AM Pressie has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1522 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 285 of 380 (712990)
12-09-2013 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Pressie
12-09-2013 2:02 AM


Show me a lithified beach please that was never buried, or a lithified sand dune that was never buried.
And stop being so cutesy about the Karoo formation. I know it contains a bazillion fossils so I regard it as a Flood deposit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 2:02 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Pressie, posted 12-09-2013 2:13 AM Faith has replied

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