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Author Topic:   Hello everyone
ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 380 (712374)
12-03-2013 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by scienceishonesty
12-03-2013 11:20 AM


Re: on religion.
scienceishonesty writes:
If there's wiggle room, it isn't religion, it's just a pet idea.
This is the first time I've heard the No True Scotsman fallcy applied to religion. It just seems bizarre that you would claim that anything is not a "true" religion.
As others have mentioned, you don't seem to have changed your creationist thought patterns. You've just switched sides. It's like committing the same old war crimes but now you're doing it for the "good guys".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:20 AM scienceishonesty has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:31 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 380 (712379)
12-03-2013 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by scienceishonesty
12-03-2013 11:31 AM


Re: on religion.
scienceishonesty writes:
If it is not believed by the person to be 100% correct, it just isn't a religion anymore.
And that's the No True Scotsman fallcy - i.e. No True Religion allows any leeway from 100% correctness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:31 AM scienceishonesty has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:46 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 23 of 380 (712384)
12-03-2013 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by scienceishonesty
12-03-2013 11:46 AM


Re: on religion.
scienceishonesty writes:
For example, for a Christian, there may be a thousand different strands and differing degrees of devotion and minor theological flexibilities, but there's no leeway in terms of whether or not there is a God and Jesus figure. If there isn't, then they are no longer a Christian.
So now the goalposts are moving. First it was No True Religion allows any leeway in its core tenets and now it's No True Christian questions the existence of God and/or Jesus. It's still the same fallacy.
The bottom line is that you don't get to decide who is a True Christian and you don't get to decide what is a True Religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:46 AM scienceishonesty has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:56 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 30 of 380 (712391)
12-03-2013 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by scienceishonesty
12-03-2013 11:56 AM


Re: on religion.
scienceishonesty writes:
Every religion has its core belief idea that is assumed to be the truth no matter what.
That's where you're wrong. A religion is any relatively systematic belief system. The concept of "absolute truth" is superimposed by you.
scienceishonesty writes:
So answer me, is someone a Christian if they don't believe in a Christ or God figure?
Someone is a Christian if he is a member of a group of Christians, the same as he is a Smith if he is a member of a group of Smiths. If the Christians or Smiths adopt him as a member, he is one of them. They may or may not require their members to hold (profess) certain beliefs but you don't get to proclaim that they must have an inviolable set of core beliefs.
I personally make a distinction between large-C Christians who are members of a Christian church and small-c christians who are followers of Christ's (supposed) teachings. You can be a christian without believing that Christ even existed.
scienceishonesty writes:
Is someone a theist if they don't believe in a god?
That's different. Theism is not a religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by scienceishonesty, posted 12-03-2013 11:56 AM scienceishonesty has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 38 of 380 (712400)
12-03-2013 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by New Cat's Eye
12-03-2013 12:29 PM


Re: Wiggle room
Catholic Scientist writes:
If you have absolutely no wiggle room then you are just lying to yourself.
And arrogant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-03-2013 12:29 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 70 of 380 (712492)
12-04-2013 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
12-03-2013 5:53 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
You don't understand how the Vatican works....
Only Faith understands how the Vatican works, just like only Faith understands how science works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 12-03-2013 5:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 12-04-2013 1:28 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 96 of 380 (712581)
12-05-2013 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
12-04-2013 1:28 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
I've been learning a lot about the Vatican that the average Catholic doesn't know because it's kept from them and the material has to be dug up from very old books.
How do you verify what's in those books?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 12-04-2013 1:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 11:40 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 98 of 380 (712583)
12-05-2013 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Phat
12-05-2013 9:08 AM


Re: Black or White or Gray?
Phat writes:
... you fear believing anything inconvenient to your lifestyle and world view.
Fundies really love that mantra, don't they? Of course, having to fend for yourself and take responsibility for your actions is much more convenient than having a Sky Daddy to do it for you and give you a Get Out of Hell Free card.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 12-05-2013 9:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 104 of 380 (712605)
12-05-2013 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
12-05-2013 11:40 AM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
You assess the attitude of the writer, you assess the totality of different witnesses against each other, you assess the information against other information you have, you assess what others say about the writer, you assess the source of the approval or the criticism, you assess the logic of the thinking, you check the bibliography for other sources and if possible check them out, you take notes on what still needs verification. The more you read the more you can make such assessments.
So how come your verification is so different from everybody else's?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 11:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 12:03 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 112 of 380 (712618)
12-05-2013 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
12-05-2013 12:03 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
We're talking about certain old books aren't we? Who else has read them that you are talking about? How do you know their verification is different from mine? I could certainly find plenty of people who share my verification.
I'm just saying that not everybody who has read those books has the same insane hatred of Catholicism that you have. Since you seem to be using the same methods of scholarship as everybody else, your insane hatred must come from somewhere else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 12:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 12:24 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 124 of 380 (712634)
12-05-2013 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
12-05-2013 12:24 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
Oh an honest reading of the books I'm talking about could only lead one to have a hatred of Catholicism as the lying murderous antichristian religiopolitical system it is.
And here was me thinking you'd deny the hatred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 12:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 12:40 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 166 of 380 (712719)
12-06-2013 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
12-05-2013 12:40 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
You hate Nazism don't you? (I hope). Stalinism? Maoism?
No, I don't think I "hate" them in the same venom-spitting way that you hate Catholicism.
Faith writes:
If you understood it you would also hate Catholicism.
Hate usually comes from misunderstanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 12-05-2013 12:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 1:27 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 202 of 380 (712826)
12-07-2013 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Faith
12-06-2013 1:27 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
Amazing, you don't hate the murdering isms of this world. How very strange.
quote:
Matthew 5:43-45 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
God bless Stalin and Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 1:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 1:57 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
(1)
Message 249 of 380 (712928)
12-08-2013 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Faith
12-07-2013 1:57 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
However, Jesus did teach us to hate even our own families if they draw us away from the Truth, so your quote is a tad out of context.
You're the one who's quoting out of context. Jesus said we have to count the cost of anything we do before we start. If we take up our cross to follow Him we take the risk of losing our family, of having them turn against us. It's more a question of being hated than of us actively hating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 1:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 12-08-2013 4:17 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 527 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
(1)
Message 307 of 380 (713046)
12-09-2013 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Faith
12-08-2013 4:17 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
Jesus was saying that we have to choose between him and our families and all other loved persons and things, and that means hating those we all too easily love more than him.
He was saying we may have to choose between our families and Him - and note that choosing Him means loving our neighbours. He wasn't talking about the kind of fire-breathing hatred that you demonstrate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 12-08-2013 4:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Faith, posted 12-09-2013 11:06 AM ringo has replied

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