Once this thread died out I took the time to get some reading done that was prompted by the issues raised in this thread. One point was the issue of first causes in the discussion with Straggler. I read Brian Greene's book
The Hidden Reality. It was a great read and found a lot in it that was interesting. It was consistent with Straggler's point of when he quoted Cavediver concerning the similarity between cause and effect in considering first causes. I have to agree with Straggler that there is no point in arguing for either an in intelligent first cause or a a materialistic first cause as neither is required. Greene lays out several theories that are supportive of the idea that we are one aspect of an infinite universe in which we perceive a point at which T=0.
Interestingly enough that even though Greene, as near as I can tell, does not hold to any theistic beliefs I found that many of the theories are almost theological when he talks about the multiverse or about parallel universes. The Christian message as I understand it is that our earthly universe/dimension is imperceptibly linked to God's heavenly universe/dimension. Greene talks about the theoretical interconnectedness, particularly as related to string theory, between our perceived universe and other realities be they branes, universes or dimensions. (I really haven't figured out how to clearly distinguish those three things.) It sure appears to me that there is a strong correlation between Christian beliefs and theoretical physics.
In the end though my understanding of first causes and my beliefs concerning creation and origins has been revised to reflect what Straggler wrote and then as it was fleshed out by Greene.
Then as a result of what onifre wrote I read Kenneth Miller's book
Finding Darwin's God
It was another great read. At the end I came to the following conclusion. We are unable to know whether or not God intervened in the evolutionary process to bring about a specific result but I do believe that natural selection, on its own, is sufficient to account for physical life as it exists today.
In addition to that I think that onifre is right when he contends that there is a genetic component to our moral and altruistic makeup. There is obviously also a huge social component involved as well. It does remain my belief however that we are also invisibly being influenced by the still small voice of God.
I then re-read John Polkinghorne's book
Exploring Reality: The Intertwining of Science and Religion . I find Polkinghorne particularly interesting when he looks at time and his beliefs about how God relates to us within our own understanding of time. He talks about a world of becoming which essentially means that God has no more idea of what I will have for lunch on Feb 19, 2015 than I do, or even as to whether or not I'll still be alive on that date.
In summation though it still boils down to a fairly simple question as to whether or not we believe that we exist as we do as the result of intelligent processes or non-intelligent material processes. We do know objectively that we can perceive matter as being beautiful or ugly - we have a sense of purpose that extends beyond our life time - we have an innate sense of right and wrong - we have a wide range of emotions including love and hate and we have the intelligence to learn what we have about our existence. We will all draw our own conclusions as to why life exists in this way, although I don't see it as a killer point as Straggler suggested.
It is my belief that the Christian faith provides the best explanation and that our relationship with God is found through His Word as embodied in Jesus Christ.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. This forum has been a great place to expand my understanding of things scientifically, philosophically and theologically.
Edited by GDR, : typo
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8