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Author Topic:   Do you dare to search for pressure cooker now?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 133 of 272 (705411)
08-26-2013 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by jar
08-26-2013 8:14 PM


Re: Your examples are not equivalent and in the OP no rights were infringed.
However in a free society the fact that someone has the knowledge to make a bomb is sufficient reason to investigate.
Since i would assume anyone with an moderate education and over the age of 12 or so would know how to make a bomb, the reality is most simply don't get investigated.
Wow!!
This is simply an advocation of a police state. Knowledge is grounds for being investigated? It boggles the mind someone can write this.
Since I have knowledge to build a bomb, the police should come knocking on my door?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 8:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 8:31 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 135 of 272 (705415)
08-26-2013 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
08-26-2013 8:31 PM


Re: Your examples are not equivalent and in the OP no rights were infringed.
quote mined? That is all you have. You have become a bad caricature of yourself. You have become a troll, but then again maybe you always were.
You are of course, welcome to your opinion. It is certainly worthy of a chuckle.
However in a free society the fact that someone has the knowledge to make a bomb is sufficient reason to investigate.
Since i would assume anyone with an moderate education and over the age of 12 or so would know how to make a bomb, the reality is most simply don't get investigated.
But that has nothing to do with the situation outlined in the OP. In fact there is no evidence in the example in the OP that either the husband or the wife's bubbe maiseh that either were bright enough to know how to make a bomb so again, the knowledge to make a bomb is pretty much irrelevant to what happened in the example in the OP.
There is your whole post. How does the rest of it change what the two lines I guoted say?
How about answering now?
Knowledge is grounds for being investigated?
Since I have knowledge to build a bomb, the police should come knocking on my door?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 8:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 10:10 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 217 of 272 (706299)
09-09-2013 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
09-09-2013 9:39 AM


Re: guilty for being able
You have never had a right in the US to have a private conversation.
The courts would not seem to agree with you.
Edited by Theodoric, : ABE
oops double negative

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 9:39 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:17 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 219 of 272 (706301)
09-09-2013 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by jar
09-09-2013 12:15 PM


Re: guilty for being able
But
You have no right to privacy when it comes to what you say in public, what you say in a house that could be overheard by anyone outside, what you post on the internet, post using corporate communications system (except again in very limited instances usually involving patent, financial or trade secrets).
Is not the same thing as
You have never had a right in the US to have a private conversation.
Is it?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:18 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 224 of 272 (706306)
09-09-2013 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by jar
09-09-2013 12:18 PM


Re: guilty for being able
So
You have never had a right in the US to have a private conversation.
Was unwarranted hyperbole or just plain outright false statement?
There are only a few places where you can have an expectation of privacy.
Well we may be quibbling over definition of the word "few". but the courts have traditionally had strong support for privacy rights and expectations of privacy.
You only listed three situations. The first is more situational then I think you are willing to allow. I live on 100+ acres. Therefore whther the conversation was private would be highly deoendent on how they heard it. If they were guests or someone working on the property it would not be private. If it were someone trespassing on the property they would have violated my reasonable expectation of privacy. If my neighbors house was 15 feet away or I lived in an apartment, my reasonable expectation of privacy would be different.
The other two are common sense. That being said there are other places to have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Like Montana.
Here is a good review of privacy and reasonable expectations.
Surveillance Self-Defense | Tips, Tools and How-tos for Safer Online Communications

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:45 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 237 of 272 (706332)
09-09-2013 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by jar
09-09-2013 4:46 PM


Re: Right vs Privilege
If you are using a public phone, there is no right of privacy.
You paint with too broad a brush. The courts do not agree with your absolutes.
quote:
This rule comes from a decision by the United States Supreme Court in 1967, Katz v. United States, holding that when a person enters a telephone booth, shuts the door, and makes a call, the government can not record what that person says on the phone without a warrant. Even though the recording device was stuck to the outside of the phone booth glass and did not physically invade Katz’s private space, the Supreme Court decided that when Katz shut the phone booth’s door, he justifiably expected that no one would hear his conversation, and that it was this expectation rather than the inside of the phone booth itself that was protected from government intrusion by the Fourth Amendment. This idea is generally phrased as "the Fourth Amendment protects people, not places."
This is from the link I posted earlier. Maybe you should read it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 4:46 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 5:56 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 240 of 272 (706335)
09-09-2013 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by jar
09-09-2013 5:56 PM


Re: Right vs Privilege
If the person in the next phone booth has his ear up against the wall and hears every word you say and then broadcasts them it's fine.
Wrong because that would be contrary to a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 5:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 6:15 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 243 of 272 (706339)
09-09-2013 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by jar
09-09-2013 6:15 PM


Re: Right vs Privilege
Again, where is there any reasonable expectation of privacy from being overheard while in a phone booth?
The Supreme Court thought there was.
Katz v. United States - Wikipedia

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 6:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 6:28 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 245 by Rahvin, posted 09-09-2013 6:34 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9208
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 246 of 272 (706343)
09-09-2013 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by jar
09-09-2013 6:28 PM


Re: Right vs Privilege
The government is not just another individual.
Does not matter there is still an expectation of privacy. The government could not use any information obtained by an individual this way. An individual disseminating info gained this way would be open to various lawsuits
There is no general right to privacy
The courts have deemed there are rights to privacy.
And again, what the hell does it have to do with the topic or the example in the OP?
You are the one making outlandish statements. That you have been shown are false.
You have never had a right in the US to have a private conversation.
If it is off topic you led the way.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 6:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 6:47 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 250 by NoNukes, posted 09-09-2013 7:29 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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