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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 91 of 313 (700051)
05-29-2013 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by PaulGL
05-29-2013 5:25 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
Yeah, the thing is that it doesn't make any sense.
Read it through again, carefully:
that the birth of the Lord Jesus was made full four years later than Tails generally grow in size as comets near the sun; some comet tails have reached lengths of more than 100 million miles. 315
That's what you wrote. Don't you see a problem with it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 5:25 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 6:41 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 92 of 313 (700053)
05-29-2013 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by PaulGL
05-29-2013 5:27 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
quote:
At the time John wrote the book of Revelation, Domitian, the sixth Caesar, was in power. Before the reign of Domitian, there had reigned five Caesars who had died unnatural deaths (are fallen) through murder or suicide. The first four of these (in chronological order) were Julius Caesar, Tiberius Caesar, Caligula, and Claudius Caesar. Physically, the Antichrist will rise to power suddenly as the seventh Caesar over a revived Roman Empire.
Well lets see if you can actually get the simple things right.
What is your criterion for being a Caesar ? If it's family ties then Domitian shouldn't count. If it's being Emperor then Julius Caesar shouldn't count - and Otho, Galba and Vitellus should.
And why don't you count any "Caesars" after Domitian, apart from your hypothetical "seventh"? If Domitian counts and your "seventh" counts then why not Commodus ? Or Caracalla ? Or Elagabalus ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 5:27 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 6:37 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 93 of 313 (700059)
05-29-2013 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by PaulK
05-29-2013 5:54 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
Let's see if I can keep this simple enough for you. 1. Men who assumed rule over the roman empire to a degree- and whewn it was significant as an empire- that are recognized as such by reputable historians. Read the "Twelve Caesars".
Okay, six (6) caesars because that was the count (5 previous who were 'fallen') and the one who was currently in power when John wrote the book of Revelation. Comprende: the count revolves around the time of the account that mentions it, NOT before or after. THAT is the specific demarcation of the timing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by PaulK, posted 05-29-2013 5:54 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2013 1:11 AM PaulGL has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 94 of 313 (700060)
05-29-2013 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Dr Adequate
05-29-2013 5:44 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
The instrument in accomplishing this amalgamation was the abbot Dionysus the Little, to whom also we owe it, as modern chronologers have demonstrated, that the date of the Christian era, or of the birth of Christ Himself, was moved FOUR YEARS from the true time. Whether this was done through ignorance or design may be a matter of question; but there seems to be no doubt of the fact, that the birth of the Lord Jesus was made full four years later than the truth. 314
Tails generally grow in size as comets near the sun; some comet tails have reached lengths of more than 100 million miles. 315
Here is the original of my footnoting. Sorry if somehow it go mixed in posting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-29-2013 5:44 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 95 of 313 (700082)
05-30-2013 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by PaulGL
05-29-2013 6:37 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
quote:
Let's see if I can keep this simple enough for you. 1. Men who assumed rule over the roman empire to a degree- and whewn it was significant as an empire- that are recognized as such by reputable historians. Read the "Twelve Caesars".
Technically, not Julius Caesar, then (Rome was not an Empire in his lifetime). Galba, Othos and Vitellius ARE included in The Twelve Caesars and therefore definitely should count. So that's 3 more for your count. (And do we have to wait for the history of those times to be written before we can call your "seventh" a "Caesar" at all ? Waiting for the historians would not seem wise!)
quote:
Okay, six (6) caesars because that was the count (5 previous who were 'fallen') and the one who was currently in power when John wrote the book of Revelation
Except that 8 had already "fallen". And we still don't have a reason why your "seventh" would be included but no other Emperors after Domitian.
quote:
Comprende: the count revolves around the time of the account that mentions it, NOT before or after. THAT is the specific demarcation of the timing.
And that would exclude your hypothetical "seventh", just as it excludes Commodus.
So, by your criteria, if we include Julius, the seventh Caesar to "fall" is Otho, already dead at the time of writing. I guess that your interpretation is wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 6:37 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:07 PM PaulK has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 96 of 313 (700095)
05-30-2013 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by PaulGL
05-29-2013 5:18 PM


Re: Hal Lindsey
I think your post is in pretty poor taste. You say your sin of false prophecy has been taken from you but you're burping it back up with this non-Scriptural nonsense.
Go and sin no moar.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 5:18 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:15 PM Larni has replied
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 97 of 313 (700100)
05-30-2013 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by PaulGL
05-29-2013 4:09 PM


Re: To Catholic Scientist
Since you take offense at my quoting of
No, the problem is that you didn't quote them,
quote:
like this
or this
Instead you submitted them as if they were your own words, like these. And you didn't include the source either. You basically plagiarized.
That's against the rules that you agreed to follow when you signed up here.
Hal Lindsey in his book 'The Late, Great Planet Earth' stated
Hal Lindsey was a liar and a fraud. He's committed the unforgivable sin: blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He should be shunned, not mentioned.
So, do you have a problem with this post, and if so, why?
Well, all that antichrist stuff is just a bunch of bullshit.
Regarding all the European Union crap, wiki has summed it up nicely:
quote:
According to Lindsey, the alliance of Western European nations is a revived form of the ancient Roman Empire; predicted in the books of Daniel and Revelation symbolically as ten horns and ten kings. In The Late Great Planet Earth, Lindsey quotes from a 1969 Time Magazine that the goal of the European Economic Community, which preceded the European Union, was to establish a ten-nation economic community. Lindsey concludes, based on this and other sources, that this alliance will lead to the fulfillment of this prophecy and will ultimately be ruled by the Antichrist. The European Union currently has 27 members. source
Obviously the European Union has nothing to do with the Book of Revelation or any end times prophecy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by PaulGL, posted 05-29-2013 4:09 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:24 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 98 of 313 (700113)
05-30-2013 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by PaulK
05-30-2013 1:11 AM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
The 7th refers to the (coming) anti-christ- who has not yet appeared, & will also be an 8th caesar.
Don't miss the forest with your infatuation with individual caesars.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2013 1:11 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2013 1:22 PM PaulGL has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 99 of 313 (700115)
05-30-2013 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Larni
05-30-2013 8:55 AM


Re: Hal Lindsey
I said no such thing. I said that I make mistakes. I also said that there is a limit to concise extrapolations from prophecy especially regarding the timing (but not the order). I also said that I (greatly) appreciate this forum exposing any factual (not opinion) errors on my part. And that, unlike Lindsey & Russel (among others); I try to forthright in publicly (posting) areas that I stand corrected in. You see, my ego is unattached to my (poor) conveyance of the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Larni, posted 05-30-2013 8:55 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 100 of 313 (700116)
05-30-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by PaulGL
05-30-2013 1:07 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
quote:
The 7th refers to the (coming) anti-christ- who has not yet appeared, & will also be an 8th caesar.
By the criteria you listed the seventh was dead before Domitian became Emperor.
quote:
Don't miss the forest with your infatuation with individual caesars.
I don't have an infatuation with individual Caesars. I'm just interested in the truth. And the truth is that you are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:07 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:40 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 101 of 313 (700117)
05-30-2013 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by New Cat's Eye
05-30-2013 10:20 AM


Re: To Catholic Scientist
Each footnoted quotation had a numerical superscript at the end which linked it to its source- as recorded in the bibliography. Sorry that I didn't choose also to """""""""""""""""""""""""everything. BTW: the antichrist will destroy Babylon the mother of harlots, and have as his headquarters the city of 7 hills.
Does anyone know of a global organization that supports and protects alcoholic, homosexual pedophiles?
Read """The Two Babylons""", an historically documented non-fiction work, circa 1917.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-30-2013 10:20 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 05-30-2013 1:36 PM PaulGL has replied
 Message 106 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-30-2013 3:31 PM PaulGL has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 102 of 313 (700119)
05-30-2013 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by PaulGL
05-30-2013 1:24 PM


Re: To Catholic Scientist
Well everyone knows that Washington DC is a city of seven hills, as is Baltimore.
Coincidence?
I think unlikely.
Folk that spew out end times prophecy stuff are among the best comedians ever though and always worthy of a hearty laugh.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:24 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 3:55 PM jar has replied
 Message 115 by Faith, posted 05-30-2013 5:15 PM jar has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3387 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 103 of 313 (700120)
05-30-2013 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by PaulK
05-30-2013 1:22 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
1. At the time writing of the book of Revelation the 6th caesar- Domitian- was in power (is = presently).
2. 5 of the previous caesars had fallen.
3. the 7th is yet to come, and when he comes he will be an 8th.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2013 1:22 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by PaulK, posted 05-30-2013 2:08 PM PaulGL has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 104 of 313 (700121)
05-30-2013 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by PaulGL
05-30-2013 1:15 PM


Hi Paul
May I humbly suggest that you are falling into the trap of understanding the Bible as a book, (or more correctly a collection of books), that will provide you with all the answers. It is very much a western mindset that we want definitive answers to questions and that we can't stand ambiguity. The Bible is just not that kind of book.
Regarding Israel it is clear in the Gospels that the promised land of the OT was a foreshadowing for what was to be a worldwide Kingdom of God. Jesus was very clear that the Kingdom is for all nations and that it was to be a Kingdom that was not about borders and nationalities. It si to be a Kingdom of His followers and whose creed is one of love, peace and justice.
I am not anti-Israel at all, but modern day Israel exists because of human politics period.
If you look at the entire narrative that makes up the Bible it is also clear that OT prophesy was based pretty much entirely as a copy of the pagan nations around the early Jews. It was all about getting God on their side in order to defeat their enemies and gain power and land. In a very real sense the idea that modern day Israel is there as an act of God makes Christianity no different than the pagan religions in the pre-Christian era.
May I suggest that a god who would do what you have suggested is not a god of free will. I also suggest that you are misunderstanding the prophesies of Jesus in the Gospel. He does talk about the fact that time will come to an end and that there will be justice. However a great deal of what you suggest is eschatological is really about Jesus' political message, that if the Jews maintain their rebellious ways the Romans will do what they always do, and there will be a blood bath and the Temple itself will be destroyed.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:15 PM PaulGL has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 105 of 313 (700127)
05-30-2013 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by PaulGL
05-30-2013 1:40 PM


Re: Europe: land of the antichrist
quote:
1. At the time writing of the book of Revelation the 6th caesar- Domitian- was in power (is = presently).
By your criteria Domitian was the 9th.
quote:
2. 5 of the previous caesars had fallen.
Even you should be able to realise that having "fallen" is one of your criteria for being a"Caesar", so this would be redundant.
quote:
3. the 7th is yet to come, and when he comes he will be an 8th.
Unless we have some valid criteria for identifying "Caesars" this isn't really a prediction, is it ?
Look, I know that your ego is wrapped up in this but the truth is that you are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by PaulGL, posted 05-30-2013 1:40 PM PaulGL has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by PaulGL, posted 06-02-2013 2:42 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 148 by PaulGL, posted 06-02-2013 2:53 PM PaulK has replied

  
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