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Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows: "the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy" The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:
"a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary) Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").
DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":"Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse." http://www.yourdictionary.com/spontaneous AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR: Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation. Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW. The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)
SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are: "a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."
QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown? 2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously or by accident and wind up in the opposite realm as Scientific Law? Or is the precision seen among the elements on the Periodic Table evidence of intelligent design?
3. Big Bang theory relies upon things happening by chance, which amounts to hit-and-miss. Big Bang theory deals with the expansion of space but presents no explanation for the existence of the millions of planets in the heavens, each with their individual fields of gravity that prevent them from crashing into each other. How does random, unguided events account for our fine-tuned universe?"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:Hello Prototypical. You asked why should it take an intelligent agent, while under the same breath, you acknowledge that the integral forces of molecules are "precise" and all the molecules in the same are "precisely" where they should be. So as you see it, precision resulted spontaneously or by accident. Is that what you are saying? I will await your response, before I further pursue your line or argument."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- SUBBIE: The real question is why doesn't your above post include supporting evidence to support your fallacious claim that, to quote you: "Fields of gravity do not prevent planets from crashing into each other." While we're on the topic of "ignorance so proudly on display," below, for the benefit of the forum, is info on the role of gravity on the planets.
quote:http://library.thinkquest.org/C001245/OrbitPc.html ALTER2EGO -to- SUBBIE:Notice above that each of the planets in our solar system have varying fields of gravity. It is that variation in gravitational pull, combined with the mass and size of each planet, that keeps each planet within its individual elliptical orbit. Keep your eyes on the words bolded in sea green in the remainder of the quotation below. quote:http://library.thinkquest.org/C001245/OrbitPc.html QUESTION #1 to SUBBIE: Did you notice that the last part of the quotation from the source said "Gravity is what keeps each planet on track and not flying all over the place"?
QUESTION #2 to SUBBIE: Did you notice that the source said "each planet applies its own gravity"?
QUESTION #3 to SUBBIE: Did you notice that the fields of gravity for the planets are different and that each planet has a different size and mass? (You will see the varying size, mass, and gravitational pull for each planet in our solar system when you click on the weblink.)"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- NO NUKES:You are proving my point: that the elements on the Periodic Table are precise. They are so precise that their behavior is predictable. QUESTION #1 to NO NUKES: Where did the atoms, neutrons, protons, and electrons, come from, considering how predictable they are? QUESTION #2 to NO NUKES: Is it your position that the predictable atoms are the result of spontaneous events or accidents? QUESTION #3 to NO NUKES: Are you telling this forum that none of the elements on the Periodic Table are evidence of intelligent design? I will watch for your response to my questions."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- NO NUKES: Do you understand that you and I are talking about two different things? 1. I was rebutting subbie who claimed at Post #4 that the individual field of gravity of each planet does not play a role in keeping planets within their orbit and away from each other. 2. You are talking only about how the sun's gravity affects the other planets in our solar system and causes them to revolve around it. You ignore the fact that each planet has its own field of gravity, which prevents each of them from being removed from their orbital path around the sun. If the sun's gravity was the only deciding factor, the sun would have long since pulled the other planets into itself because the sun has a stronger gravitational field and gravity causes planets to pull inwards. This is confirmed by the following source:
quote:Gravity Applications Click the weblink below, and you will notice that each planet is on a different orbital path around the sun.File:Solar sys8.jpg - Wikimedia Commons BTW: I notice you evaded all three of the questions I asked you. I need not wonder why."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- HUNTARD: Pluto is very much a planet. It was reclassified as a "dwarf planet", but it is a planet just the same. quote:What Is Pluto? | NASA QUESTION #1 to HUNTARD: What does the expression "just like other planets" indicate about dwarf planets such as Pluto?"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- HUNTARD:Of course words have meaning. And the last source I quoted said Pluto is a "dwarf planet.' Remove the word "dwarf" and what are you left with? quote: ALTER2EGO -to- HUNTARD:The confusion is yours. That's what happens when one decides to play along with the game of semantics that those in the scientific community tend to play. quote: As you can see, NASA, the last source I quoted, used the expression "just like other planets" when describing Pluto. That can only mean one thing: Pluto is indeed a planet.
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- HUNTARD:The first source I quoted was referring to the largest among the 13 when it said there are 9 planets in our solar system, obviously. The routine of the scientific community is to exclude the smaller planets aka dwarf planets during the count. Somewhere down the road, they may discover even smaller planets, at which point, they might decide to play more games of semantics with the word "planet." In any event, the argument over what is a "planet" does not have any effect on the point of this thread: that precision in nature is evidence of intelligent design. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- NO NUKES:You are the only person between us two who thinks that to be the case. If the other planets did not have their own field of gravity, the sun would have been able to suck them in. That's what you will never admit because you have a difficult time admitting you are in error. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote: ALTER2EGO -to- NO NUKES:That's not what the source says. The source says the smaller object "must move faster," indicating it is the small object's speed and gravity that prevents it from being sucked into larger planets. Notice this point in the words bolded in light green from the same quotation. quote: QUESTION #4 to NO NUKES: Did you notice that the source specifically says the smaller planet "must move faster" and that it did not say the larger planet makes the smaller planet move faster?"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- NO NUKES: Yes, I read all that. And as I previously stated, a "dwarf planet" is still by definition a planet. In 1930, Pluto was accepted as a planet. Then in 2006, the International Astronomical Union decided that a new system of classification was needed to describe what is to be referred to as "planet.' In other words, it's nothing but a game of semantics--which I will not play. Overview | Planets — NASA Solar System Exploration"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- NO NUKES: Notice the portion within the above quotation that I bolded in light green. The source also says that the satellite "must move faster in its orbit," indicating that the satellite's own gravitational forces are a contributing factor and that the more massive planet is not the only reason why the smaller planet speeds up. That's the point I've been making. To hear you tell it, the more massive planet is the only deciding factor in all this interplay of planet movements. If anything, the examination of planets and their reaction to each other's field of gravity proves the point of this thread: that there is precision in the natural world and that precision cannot result by accidental means."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:Hmm.... That has a familiar ring. It rhymes with sore loser. You know, buffoon and lose. I hear stuff like that wherever I debate people who can't accept defeat gracefully. "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
Logic based upon the dismissal of evidence is flawed logic--which is what atheists bring to the table. For instance, the 92 natural elements found within the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth are so interrelated and precise that scientists refer to it as Periodic LAW. The existence of Laws or precision indicates it was deliberately done. Evidence of Jehovah God's existence is dismissed every single time one ignores the complexity of the natural world. Flawed logic also results from ignorance or lack of knowledge about certain scientific facts. To avoid the trap of stubbornness, one must allow logic and evidence to interact. For instance, nobody can explain how Big Bang--which is nothing more than a theory about expanding space--could have resulted in the appearance of planets. The millions of planets in the universe each have separate gravitational fields that keep them within their own orbits and prevent them from crashing into each other. This could not have happened by accident or spontaneously. Why not? Because the definition of "accident" is as follows:
"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary) The universe shows precision. Something that is precise indicates deliberation. In turn, something deliberately done says one thing: an intelligent being intervened and directed the outcome. Since humans clearly are not responsible for the appearance of planets in the heavens, then who did it? Somebody must have done it. God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible responds to that question, as follows:
"{1} In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. {14} And God Went on to say: 'Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years.' " (Genesis 1:1 and 14)"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- FOREVER YOUNG: Quantum mechanics does not help your argument. Here's why: Quantum mechanics is nothing more than a THEORY. That's theory as in: "a group of hypotheses that can be disproven." Not only that, quantum mechanics theory is focused on randomness, which is the exact opposite of precision because precision deals with order and predictablility--such as the example of the Periodic Table used in my OP. The elements on the Periodic Table are so precise and so interrelated to one another that, in the case of the first 60-discovered elements on the Periodic Table, scientists were able to accurately predict the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. As you can see, that is the polar opposite of quantum mechanics theory which is based on Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. You do realize that something that is "uncertain" is unpredictable; do you not? Edited by Alter2Ego, : No reason given."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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Alter2Ego Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 72 From: Los Angeles, California Joined: |
quote:ALTER2EGO -to- PERCY: I offered something far superior to scientific theory in my OP. I presented Scientific Facts and Scientific Law dealing with the precision and complexity of the elements on the Periodic Table. I presented a sound argument that because of the complexity and precision among the first 60-discovered elements on the Periodic Table, scientists were able to accurately predict the existence of missing elements. Meanwhile, you and the other members of the Religion of Atheism have presented nothing resembling an effective rebuttal to my OP. None of you can present a logical and credible explanation for how the elements on the Periodic Table could be the result of spontaneous generation or accidental events. In fact, several atheists showed up attempting to derail my thread by arguing about the difference between "planets" and "dwarf plants," as if that is supposed to explain away the fact that the planets remain in their orbits because of their individual fields of gravity--another evidence of precision, which points to the Intelligent Designer aka Jehovah. Edited by Alter2Ego, : No reason given."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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